VJC PLANS TO ADMIT SEC 1 STUDENTS
VICTORIA Junior College (VJC) has proposed a change to its current integrated programme which will see it admitting Secondary 1 students, a decision that has sparked ire among Victorian alumni.
VJC, which currently runs a four-year integrated programme admitting students at the Sec 3 level, submitted a proposal to the Ministry of Education about two weeks ago indicating that it hopes to extend its programme to six years, and admit Sec 1 students to the school.
If approved, this proposal will put VJC in direct competition with Victoria School (VS), with which it is affiliated, say some of its alumni.
The move would be similar to what the National Junior College has implemented, as it too has started to admit Sec 1 students directly this year.
Other institutions that have implemented integrated, or through-train, programmes include the Raffles schools and Hwa Chong Institution.
Temasek Junior College is the only other junior college that offers a four-year programme similar to VJC’s.
Some alumni are concerned that if implemented, the programme will pose a threat to Victorian heritage and unity.
‘We are disappointed that they have gone ahead with the proposal,’ said Mr Quak Hiang Wai, spokesman for the Old Victorians’ Association, the alumni association for both VS and VJC.
‘This will split the Victorian family apart and lead to unnecessary competition, as there will essentially be two secondary schools.’
He noted that the committee of the alumni association is not opposed to the integrated programme, but is taking issue with VJC’s decision to ‘go its own way’.
‘In fact, we are all for a merger between VS and VJC…for an integrated programme, as long as the school’s heritage is preserved and VS remains a single-sex school,’ said Mr Quak.
VJC intends to enrol both male and female students in its six-year programme, if it is approved.
When asked about VJC’s decision to extend its four-year programme, vice-principal Audrey Chen said the school believes there are significant educational advantages in having an uninterrupted six-year programme.
She added: ‘Regardless of the outcome of the proposal, VJC will continue to maintain close ties with VS and work in partnership to keep the Victorian spirit strong.’
Both Ms Chen and VS principal Low Eng Teong declined to comment on the alumni’s concerns.
chiaym@sph.com.sg
Source: The Straits Times
293 Comments. Leave new
I am probably in the minority.
I would like to suggest that we do not stand in the way of VJC pursuing what it considers to be in the best interests of its stakeholders.
That VJC has become a premier JC is a victory for Victorians to share, whether VS or VJC.
Let VJC rise to the challenge in its pursuit of excellence and let primary school leaving students have a choice of VJC or VS.
If VJC does not "cannabalise" VS, some other school will also compete with VS for the best. I would rather the school be VJC.
Let us wish VJC the best.
May we all share in the victories of VS and VJC.
I am probably in the minority.
I would like to suggest that we do stand in the way of VJC pursuing what it deems to be in the best interest of its stakehodlers.
If VJC does not cannablise VS, some other schools will compete with VS for the better primary school leaving students. I would rather the school be VJC than say NJC or Dunman. Let the students have a choice, VJC or VS.
Let us share in the victories of all Victorians, whether VS or VJC and keep the Victoria flag unfurled.
(Corrected Version)
I am probably in the minority.
I would like to suggest that we do not stand in the way of VJC pursuing what it deems to be in the best interest of its stakehodlers.
If VJC does not cannablise VS, some other schools will compete with VS for the better primary school leaving students. I would rather the school be VJC than say NJC or Dunman. Let the students have a choice, VJC or VS.
Let us share in the victories of all Victorians, whether VS or VJC and keep the Victoria flag unfurled.
The Model for VS and VJC
The report seems to suggest that the alternative model is that of a merger, the model first adopted by the Hwa Chong schools and then followed by the Raffles Schools.
I would like to suggest that we do not think in a box and find ourselves enclosed in the Hwa Chong/Raffles model.
Take a look at the ACS schools for instance. There are ACJC, ACS Independent, ACS Barker with feeder primary schools ACS Primary and ACS Junior. You do not read of them opposing the development of their sister/competing schools.
Another possible model is that if VJC manages to attract the more academically inclined and VS the more sports inclined, VJC can develop into a premier academic institution in the East (comparable to the premier institutions in Bishan and Bukit Timah) and VS, with an already strong sports tradition, the premier sports school in the East (comparable to the Singapore Sports School.)
Let us live up to "Victoria is something more", be more creative and come up with more options.
Change, we must.
If VS is keen to provide a 6 year IP, I suggest getting a girl's school to join in so as to balance the ratio. Tanjong Katong Girl's would be a good choice since many TKGS students go to VJC (I stand to be corrected). If no girl's school is interested, then let VJC start the sec 1 program for girls only while boys will come from VS.
If VS is against IP, then there is no conflict of interest since VJC will provide 6years through train while VS remains a 4year 'O'-level programme.
Victorians, it’s confirmed, the Principal of VJC has shown his true colour. The Straits Times today has reported that VJC Pincipal has submitted proposal to MOE to start admitting pupils from Secondary 1..
It’s very disappointing as he was in the panel (held in VS auditorium) about 1-2 years ago assuring the VOAs that he will NOT DO anything without consulting and affecting VS! The same guy now is back tracking. Can we trust him?
Let’s stand up and do something. Anybody has any idea of an effective “blockage”? Why should we allow him to use the Vistoria name for his advantage at our expense?
Reply to "Thy Victories We Share Yet",
Do not be naive. We can draw parallels with ACS(Independent) and ACS (Barker Rd). ACSI get the cream of the students who want an ACS education. ACS (Barker Rd) become the dumping ground for those who cannot get into ACSI.
For your info, ACS (Barker Rd) is a Band-8 school. Band-9 is the worst academically and Band-1 is the best, of which VS is one.
With VJC small compound area, it will be illogical for VJC to absorb VS (since it is redunant any way due to poor academic results). Future Singaporeans can read about VS in VJC's history.
VS become the 2nd Nantah of Singapore.
Reply to "1971 Old Boy":
Yes. I agree with you on the idea of an effective blockage. I will open a discussion on this today in Facebook.
Old Boys and the turf they guard
by Lin Yan Qin
Updated 02:10 PM Aug 14, 2009
EDUCATION for all, regardless of exam results, and shared memories of a time when character development came first – it is this sense of pride in their school, they say, that drives them.
So, for the second time in three years, a group of Victoria School (VS) alumni hope to scuttle a proposal that would change things for their alma mater.
More than 1,500 Old Boys – to date – are objecting to Victoria Junior College's (VJC) proposal to expand its current four-year Integrated Programme to a six-year one.
The proposal, which has been submitted to the Education Ministry, would allow VJC to draw students who do well at the Primary School Leaving Examinations.
And cannibalise VS, turning the two close schools into rivals for good students, ultimately resulting in the loss of an egalitarian ideal, say those against the idea.
"We're a school that's for everyone, from all backgrounds, not just those with the best results, and developing each one of us in a holistic way," said alumnus Kevin Lam, 41, a senior vice-president at UOB.
"With the IP, if we admit students based strictly on academic merit, we would lose that." This egalitarian ideal, he added, is part of "the greater debate about education in Singapore".
Call it an ideal, call it heritage, too – the reason why VS alumni vigorously objected three years ago when the all-boys school and the JC considered admitting female students in a merger so as to offer an IP.
The plan was shelved; now this vocal group hopes to dash VJC's latest bid out of concern their dreams would be dashed.
VS alumnus Mr Sanjay, 21, who started the FaceBook group objecting to VJC's plans, said: "Even at the late stage in Secondary 4, I was invited to join the school track and field meet to represent VS. This enormous faith the teachers and coaches had in me inspired me to further my goals and dreams."
Other prominent schools have had it easier when faced with such choices.
Mr Cheng Soon Keong, former president of the Old Rafflesians' Association, who helped oversee the merger between Raffles Institution and Raffles Junior College said the two schools "had it easier" because both worked together closely even before the merger (Corrected at 1:45 PM Aug 14, 2009).
"Victoria has a very unique set of problems … I think it's natural the alumni have such strong feelings because of the shared camaraderie people go through together in their secondary schools," he said.
A spokesperson for the Old Victorians' Association (OVA) said it was not clear how much consultation VJC did with stakeholders before submitting the proposal. The association was "disappointed" by the move.
According to the Lianhe Zaobao, VJC vice-principal Fong Yeow Wah said both schools will continue to maintain ties, regardless of whether the proposal is accepted. The expansion, he said, was necessary to give its IP students an uninterrupted education experience to develop holistically.
Today understands the OVA sent a letter to Education Minister Ng Eng Hen last week to explain its stand.
Ironically, a merger of sorts doesn't seem so bad any longer. "The preferred outcome is for a merger to take place and the IP programme offered to VS students, and other students including female students entering at the junior college level," said the OVA spokesperson.
There is a gnawing feeling among another segment of alumni that VS may not otherwise be competitive enough.
Education consultant Fang Xiong Kun, 25, who attended both VS and VJC, told Today: "As it is, the good students are going to the IP schools, so we're losing out on the quality of students we can attract.
"There are parents who are alumni but will not send their child to VS if standards fall behind other schools."
Mr Lam, who is also an OVA member, hopes both schools can work out a compromise, rather than go their separate ways.
If the schools part ways, VJC will need to reconsider its present use of the Victoria school anthem, badge, and its brand name, said the OVA spokesperson.
"Because, is it still Victoria?" he asked.
http://www.todayonline.com/Singapore/EDC090814-00…
How is VJC going to maintain close ties with VS and work in partnership to keep the Victorian spirit strong while in the same breath "killing" VS. What a hypocrite you are, VJC! Ms Audrey Chan, you simply don't feel and understand the Victorian spirit when you uttered the statement to the Straits Times.
Ever since the introduction of IP, it is understood that each year, a number of VS students (not necessarily all the best, but a majority of them) have opted for the IP after sec 2. In the beginning, it was thought that this was going to hollow out the school's o level cohorts and adversely affect the school's results and ranking. However, since then VS has continued to achieve great results and consistently ranked in band one. Even better, several VS boys from the recent years' o level batches have secured prestigous PSC scholarships, including SAF Overseas and OMS Scholarships.
according to psc website, the following are the Scholars from VS in 2008 and 2009:
Conran Chia, awarded SAF Overseas Scholarship to study Economics at University College, UK, in 2008
Mansoor s/o Amir awarded Spore Govt Scholarship (Open) to study Law & Economics in UK in 2008 (he was Head Prefect of VS in 2005)
Calvin Han, awarded OMS (Open) to study Natural Sciences at Cambridge University in 2009
I think Old Boy has missed my point. If VS is unable to complete with VJC for the better students, then VS will be unable to compete with other good schools too.
Talk to the primary GEP cohort at the top GEP primary schools. What are the schools they go to attend the open house and recruitment ?
Raffles Institution
Hwa Chong Institution
NUS High School
Their choices are probably in that order unless they really want to specialise in maths and science then NUS High will be their first choice.
Where does VS stand ?
If a merger is needed to attract the better students then VS is relying on VJC to attract the better students. If VS is unable to attract the better students now, then which institution is carrying the Victoria flag ? VJC or VS.
Better to have VJC attract the better students than to lose them to other schools.
VS should compete in open competition without protectionism from constraining VJC.
It would be a real shame if VS can only stay in Band 1 by protecting it from competition from VJC or any other school.
Should we ask the Singapore Sports School to withdraw from all sports competition so that VS can become champions ?
A VS that cannot thrive under competition is not one that I would be proud of.
Reply to "Thy Victories We Share Yet":
There is a limit what the school and its alumni can do for the students. Before the 1990s, SJI and ACS academic standards were way below that of VS. SJI had or intended to take in "N" level students. (I can't confirm this). The school and its alumni can't do anything much, as they have to take in academically-weaker students from their affiliated primary schools. Then came their saviour in the form of independent schools. Each of the independent school was given $1 million (a lot of money 20 yrs ago) to kick off new programmes, add resources, etc. Even then, it took several years before they flourished (again). Think SJI and ACS in the 1st ST Ranking (some years after obtaining independent status) was more than 20th in position. (I do not have the exact figures).
What I am trying to say is that schools like SJI and ACS lost out in the open competition you mentioned, until "help" came from MOE in the form of independent schools.
A different rallying cry to all VS Victorians
I would like to suggest a different rallying cry to all Victorians from VS.
Stop the VJC bashing.
Come together and think of ways to make VS better !
VS CAN be better.
i think we should avoid drawing in other schools for comparison or whatever. SJI, to most people, will always be an excellent sch whether it is in the top league or not. If SJI wishes to do so, it could have easily drawn on its very big pool of big wig alumnus (counting at least three sr ministers in the present cabinet)to ensure that the sch remains as one of the top schools, academically. Although SJI is today no longer in the top ranking based on academic results (I think it was band 2 in the last ranking), we do not hear of the school or its alumnus making a commotion. To many people, SJI remains a good educational institution to send their children to study and be moulded into well rounded persons. Even one of the ministers, who was a third generation student of the sch, was reported in the press a couple of years ago, to have said that he would send his son to the sch to continue with the family tradition if he qualified for entry.
Info for VS forever, conran chia and mansoor both happened to be before VIP even started. And don't mind me saying doesn't one OMS seemed quite a small number relative to other band one schools?
Also correct me if I am wrong OVA should be helping VS to do better, not attempt protectionism to preserve VS. Forward and not look at history.
Good Day,
It's great to see so many VS boys stepping out to
answer to Victoria's call.
Allow me to present my stand:
1) VJC was set up by old boys in 1984 with the purpose of providing a JC route for VS boys with good O Level scores.
2) The current thru train trend, which prevails among top JCs, mean that their doors are almost shut to good students who do not share their origins.
This only serve to accentuate VJC's duty and responsibility to provide good JC education to our bright VS boys.
We have save VJC before ( in 2005 ), it will only be a mere routine for us this time.
nil sine labore
DT
I was initially put off by Old Boy's comments that "VS become the 2nd Nantah of Singapore".
On reflection, something good for VS can come out of being the "2nd Nanyang", that is the NTU now offering the more applied engineering and business courses.
VS can continue to offer the "O" levels and work closely with the polytechnics to prepare her students for entry to the more practical and applied courses there and hopefully these students can progress to NTU and the university partners which the polytechnics are going to work with to offer degree courses.
On the other hand, VJC through its VIP (starting from Sec 1) can offer the usual more academic JC route to the "A" levels and university.
The Victoria family will then be offering students a choice of two pathways to university: the VJC VIP "A" level route and the VS "O" level polytechnics route.
Pardon my tenses. Did my best 🙂
Reply to "Thy Victories We Share Yet",
Perhaps you should check out with Nantah grads, many of which have distinguished themselves, whether they recognize NTU as Nantah successor. Some even declined comment when asked about Nantah.
If VS mission is to sent her students to the polytechnics, I don't think there is much difference between VS and a neighbourhood school. But this is the likely scenario in the future, VS will be just another neighbourhood school.
VS is not an elite school in the sense that it is not associated with pomposity or wealth or whatever. It is certainly a good government all boys school (the only remaining one) which carries on its traditions of drawing into its fold students from diverse backgrounds and producing alumnus who bring distinction to the school by their great contributions to society be it in government, military services, business, art, sports, etc. There is certainly a place in Singapore for an institution like VS to flourish for eternity. In the meantime, let us give thanks to the principal and teachers of the school for their dedication and devotion which have enable VS to do very well in both academic and CCA in recent years.
I think Old Boy has missed my point again.
I wrote about the "2nd Nanyang" (a pun on Old Boy's 2nd Nantah), NTU and not about the defunct Nantah which as a historical fact has been merged into NUS. NTU is not a 2nd Nantah.
If VS is merged with VJC, then which instiution will be the new one ? VS or VJC ? If it is VJC or a new institution, then VS will cease to exist. VS will be merged into the new institution and Old Boy's prophecy of VS being a 2nd Nantah will come true.
As far as I know, Nantah alumnus registry has been transferred from NUS to NTU.
actually in spore, things change so fast that what hold in our memory of the past may not be what it is supposedly today. We are thankful that one of the few constants is VS which is still an all boys school with students hailing from all races and all walks of life and continuing to receive an all rounded education, combining reasonable level of excellence in both CCA and academic pursuits. For all their perceived prestige, the so called elite schools, esp those in the SAP schools are not what they are originally founded to be. Notably, the CHS in Bukit Timah is now known by another name and it is now a predominantly English stream school. What feelings of pride or nostalgia would the old boys of before, comprising people of all walks of life – sons of petty traders, farmers, shopkeepers, taxi drivers, tycoons, scholars – have of the present HCI?
This will be my last post on Nantah and NTU as they are not really relevant to the issue at hand.
If Old Boy is interested, you may want to read an article by an assistant professor in the History Dept of NUS, Huang Jianli, "Dilemma and Anguish of the Chinese-Educated" in a new book by the Institute of Policy Studies, "Impressions of the Goh Chok Tong Years in Singapore" recently launched by Prof Tommy Koh and published by NUS Press.
VS with 4 year "O" levels.
VJC with 6 year IP "A" levels from Sec 1.
How would a student choose ?
If the student wants the IP programme, the student will go straight to an IP school (RI, HCI, NJC, Dunman, NUS High)and will not apply to VS anyway.
If VJC offers a 6 year IP, it may be able to attract some of these students who will not come to VS anyway.
If a student does not want to do IP for whatever reason, the student will apply to non-IP schools. VJC is an IP school and so does not compete with VS for such students.
So, VS and VJC are not really competing for the same subsets of students.
Granted there may be a common pool of students who may choose 6 year IP or 4 year "O" level at a good secondary school as long as the school is willing to offer a place.
If OVA manages to scuttle the VJC 6 year IP, other JCs, probably Temasek Junior College will be next one to offer a 6 year IP and will compete with VS for this pool of students. More JCs will follow.
Even if you can stop VJC, can you stop the other JCs ?
Reply to "alamak":
CHS and HCI are still known as Hua Qiao Zhong Xue in Chinese. The change in name in English does not really matter to them.
It is like if VS name is change in Chinese from Wei Duo Li Ya Xue Xiao to Wei Duo Li Ya Zhong Xue, does not really matter to us.
The decision of the proposal should lie chiefly with the Education Minister, Ng Eng Hen, a former ACS student. From his perspective, the proposal is likely to go through. There is no reason for him to reject it. The only hope is for him to put the decision on hold and ask VJC to go back to the drawing board, and to further explore the idea of including VS in the IP school, together with another girls' school, eg TKGS. Coincidentally, the principal of TKGS, Phyllis Lim-Chua Suan Gek, is formerly a VJC student.
From the analysis in my previous comments, to compete for the top students (say top 10% with PSLE T-Score of 250 and above), a school in the Victoria family has to offer a 6 year IP.
The school has to be either VS, VJC or a collaboration of VS and VJC.
If some members believe VS should offer an egalitarian education instead of IP, then don't stand in the way of VJC.
I am truly disappointed in VJC going for an IP programme without much consideration of the student(esp current boys) of VS.
My son scored 25+ in last year PSLE, which allowed him to get in some of the 2nd tier IP schools. We are confident that VS being the only government boy's school, could provide an all-round enduation for him. However, we also had the idea that VJC will take in students from VS and the chances of VS boys getting in are higher.
Now this is not the case anymore. I am very sure many parents of the current VS boys are very upset over VJC IP proposal. Is there anyway, we as the parents of the VS's boys, could do something to help?
To "Thy Victories We Share Yet", there are always 2 sides to a situation.
I do not think anyone is standing in the way of VJC. Have you ever consider how the current boys and the paretns would feel about this IP proposal? Especailly those who did well and have hight hope of applying for VJC either in Year 3 or after "O" level? Now the chances is nearly close to zero….
You could be a parent someday(or maybe you are already one), which I wish that you could view the sitution from all angles and try to feel how the other party will feel.
Reply to mumofvsboy
First of all, let me say that I am not privy to the details of the proposal and I don't think anyone jumping on the bandwagon to scuttle the proposal has either.
My guess is that if your boy is currently in VS your son should be able to apply to enter in year 3 (no affiliation points) and to enter in year 5 through "O" levels (2 affiliation points) and would not be affected. The current schemes should not be affected by the new proposal to take in Sec 1 students. However you should check directly with VJC whether your son is affected by the new proposal. Have you ?
Turn the clock back. If VJC had an IP from Sec 1, would your son have applied ? Would it have given your son a chance to enter VJC directly ?
Reply to mumofvsboy
"Especailly those who did well and have hight hope of applying for VJC either in Year 3 or after “O” level?"
If VJC no longer takes in students for year 3 and year 5, and your boy has done well, he can always apply to other top tier IP schools/JCs. It is VJC's loss not your son's.
Reply to “Thy Victories We Share Yet”
I have not check directly with VJC and I doubt they could answer my question as the outcome of the proposal has not been finalised. And if it did get through, when will they be implementing? These are in still questions?
Whether if I would apply for IP to VJC, I would consider the culture of VJC, if is academically driven or a balanced and all-rounded like the current VS.
Reply to mumofvsboy
Well, the very least you should do as a concerned stakeholder is to check with VJC directly. You would have done your part. Whether VJC would answer your questions is up to them.
First of all, we should all take a look at things objectively and without emotionals.
At first, i was kind of shocked by this news by i realise the underlying principles behind VJC move towards a 6 years IP programme. Lets talk facts here.
The very problem with the present education system is that many students after their PSLE would choose better schools then VS if they get more then satisfactory results. This would entail losing good students to RI/JC, hwachong and Dunman High. However, when you put VJC IP programme to 6 years, do you think VJC would not have a chance to grab this students away before the other schools do so? Do you think VS have a better chance of getting the better students then VJC? The sole purpose is to get this bright students into the Victorian Family before they are stuck inside the whatever programme Raffles and Hwachong have.
Secondly, the most vocal group in opposition to VJC are presently the VS-VJC alumni group. Yet does vocal means majority support? Lets look at facts. VJC every year produces 17% VS-VJC graduates on the average. that is only about 150 students per cohort. The majority are the 83% of nonVS-VJC students. We have to admit that the voice of the opposition now is not the majority.
Thirdly, as a VS student, i do not believe that VS is incapable of producing sound and strong students to contest for seats in the O'lvls. Even with the implemention of IP, only 120 seats would be given to IP. Same quota as other years. So evidently, the same number of seats offered to Sec 4 Students are still the quite substantial. Besides most VS students come to VJC through O'lvls.
Lets stop this name bashing of VJC name and demanding the return of the name or crest to VS. VJC had never intended to break away the bonds it shared with VS. BUT its position cant remain at status quo with this changing education environment. VJC is just thinking about its survival and we should respect that. It is just some what like the situation of UK and Singapore. Singapore is founded by UK but the successes that Singapore achieved is not due to UK. But Singapore have always maintained close links to the UK by adopting british style language and examinations. Singapore have neved denied the links to UK but it have rather carved out a name for itself. VJC have done the same thing and made a name for itself. We have to understand that VS has only a part of contribution to VJC. It is not entirely because of VS that VJC succeeded.
So before you criticize the moves made by VJC, understand 1 thing. The bonds shared by VJC and VS are undeniable and unforgettable. But if we allow these bonds and emotions to hold us back, then status quo would be best. However, is status quo the best way forward and in the best interests for both schools? i really wonder how…
My comments are what i have seen and heard from many people. If my post have hurt any of you, i sincerely apologize.
Thanks for yr inputs, VS-VJC boy.
The intention of VJC 6-yr IP is to compete with the likes of Raffles, Hwa Chong. This is being done with a smaller intake, like what you said. But Raffles and Hwa Chong have 2 feeder schools intake which provide 800-1000 IP students every year.
So if VJC still cannot compete, it will expand its IP intake. And based on the small compound area in VJC, there is a likelihood that they will take over VS premises for their sec classes if VS academic results drop.
what if VJC retains its name but changes its badge, motto and sch song. Can anyone stop this from being done? As matters stand, it is a given that non VS students in VJC regard themselves as VJCians, and not Victorians (as in alumni of VS). There is Anderson Jr College, which shares the name of Anderson Sec Sch but does not have any affiliation.
Reply to mumofvsboy
Allow me if you may, to define your battle line.
Your concerns should be
1. Can my VS boy still apply to VJC for entry to year 3 ?
2. Can my VS boy still apply to VJC for entry to year 5 through the "O" levels with 2 affiliation points ?
These are the issues you should be fighting for and not VJC should not take in Sec 1 students.
Reply to "Thy Victories We Share Yet".
1. Can my VS boy still apply to VJC for entry to year 3
Ans 1.: Yes of course he can, but having VJC taking in students at Year 1 will DEFINITELY lower the intake at this point!
2. Can my VS boy still apply to VJC for entry to year 5 through the “O” levels with 2 affiliation points ?
Ans 2.: This is even worst! With Year 1,2 and 5 intakes, I think maybe 0.01% of successful entrance.
I hope you can understand the anxiety and worrying mind of the parents getting shocking news about almost minimum chance of entrance of VS boys to VJC. Mind in mind that VJC was build in the begining to help VS boys a better chance of getting a JC education in a affilated institution.
If the journey of education is about competition in the brightest, disregard of the ties with VS, I wish VJC the best in the proposal.
Finally, if my boy could get a better result to get into the top tier JC, maybe VJC will not be on top of the priority.
Reply to mumofvsboy:
If the VIP cohort size does not change is it going to be much more different than now to get into VJ?
To VS-VJC boy:
Finally a voice of rationality. You should post your comments on the fb page
To 'mumofvsboy'
I think there might be a misunderstanding here. From what i know, if VJC starts a 6 years IP programme, you child would not be able to enter IP at secondary 3. All IP applicants would come from Secondary 1. IN other words, your point 1 is most likely wrong as VJC would not open its IP doors anymore for Secondary 3 students and point 2 is not a problem as i mentioned that the intake quota would remain the same as other years. it is just shifting the IP students down 2 years. Effectively, it means 120 IP students every year still except they are undergoing 6 years instead of the previous 4 years.
However, i realised that i have not concluded my arguement pretty well in my previous post. If you all know, most of us here like to compare to raffles or hwachong. BUT VJC is a government school, we have to confine ourselves to MOE guidelines. It is not the same for raffles or hwachong where they are independent and if they would like to make changes to their system of education, they can do so without MOE approval. So unless we are independent, MOE makes the final decision and decides the path for us. Opinions are opinions, it is up to MOE to decide whether to listen to the alumni or just base the situation of facts and evidence.
So, if you ask me now, i would 100% support the merger of VS and VJC. I dun think it is practical of obtaining 2 goals of 'Victorian Brand' and 'All-boy school' without compromising one another. If we want the victorian brand to fly strong, we nid to go co-ed. If we want our all-boys heritage, we would have to see a possible separation of ideas from VJC. So it is up to you all to decide whether you want to save the Victorian brand on the whole or save VS. For me, the Victorian brand is what distinguish us from those independent schools.
Reply to mumofvsboy
I think your concerns are unfounded.
You are looking at the wrong time line.
Your boy is already in Sec 1 in VS.
His cohort is different from the new VJC intake if approved and implemented a few years down the road.
Reply to wonght
Lol, i realise i dun have a facebook. Not that i dun want, but i dun wanna make the people in fb more unhappy then they are now. Being anonymous is better then being recognized now. You can however quote my words though if you want.
Those people in fb now signing the petition are people lead by emotions. People in this blog here are more rational and listens to reasons.
Reply to mumofvsboy
If you have read all my comments and the comparison of the schools, you should have gleaned that I probably have walked the path with my child on the selection of a school. The choice was not mine to make anyway. He chose it himself.
I do not want to get emotional and personal over the issues and therefore will not disclose more personal information.
Suffice it to say I do empathise with your concerns (although unfounded).
Raffles Model
Raffles Boys: RI (Sec)
Year 1 – 4
Raffles Girls: RGS
Year 1 – 4
Raffles Boys and Girls: RI (JC)
Year 5 – 6
RI and RGS offer a common Raffles Programme
***
Proposed Victoria Model
Victoria Boys: VS
Year 1 – 4
Victoria Girls: VJC (Sec)
Year 1 – 4
Victoria Boys and Girls: VJC (JC)
Year 5 – 6
VJC and VS offer a common VIP
***
The Victoria Model is actually the flip side of the Raffles Model.
Victoria Model
Girls – 6 years in VJC
Boys – 4 years in VS and 2 years in VJC
Raffles Model
Boys – 6 Years in RI
Girls – 4 Years in RGS and 2 Years in RI
No need for change of name. No need for co-ed at VS.
The girls are in RGS in the Raffles Model whereas the girls are in VJC in the Victoria Model.
The boys are still in the all-boy schools, VS in the Victoria Model and RI in the Raffles Model.
***
Reply to Thy Victories We Share Yet
i am not very sure, but i dun think your plan gonna work well. First thing we are not independent. Second thing it is not easy to set up a girls school in the first place. Thirdly, wad the point in separating girls from boys in the IP programme now when it is not even separated in the first place. Besides your plan is far-fetched IMO. Where are you gonna find the place, money, resources and teachers to set up a girls school? And lets say it is set up, can you guarantee that the school would achieve success in the first year and attract students immediately? I think ideas of merging is much more viable and practical now.
Actually i had submitted a similar idea to the OVA before. But then i realise this plan is easy to say in words but actually hard or almost impossible to implement.
Reply to VS-VJC boy
I think you missed my point.
I am not suggesting setting up a new girl school.
In the Victoria Model, the VJC Sec 1 intake would be all girls and the VS Sec 1 intake all boys in a new integrated programme (new VIP) implemented in both VS and VJC.
I think it is also not about being independent or autonomous. I stand corrected but Dunman High is autonomous but has implemented a 6 year IP. Look at the new school in Tanjong Rhu.
If approved, resources are not a problem. The government is very willing to spend on education and infrastructure in this environment to stimulate an economic recovery.
Yes, just checked the MOE website.
Dunman High is an autonomous school like VS.
River Valley is also an autonomous school that offers an IP.
Autonomous Schools http://app.sis.moe.gov.sg/schinfo/SIS_Results.asp
IP Schools http://app.sis.moe.gov.sg/schinfo/SIS_index.asp
Reply to mumofvsboy
"However, we also had the idea that VJC will take in students from VS and the chances of VS boys getting in are higher."
"Finally, if my boy could get a better result to get into the top tier JC, maybe VJC will not be on top of the priority."
???
“However, we also had the idea that VJC will take in students from VS and the chances of VS boys getting in are higher.”
Parent's thinking: Apply to VS because it is affiliated to VJC and therefore higher chance to go to VJC.
“Finally, if my boy could get a better result to get into the top tier JC, maybe VJC will not be on top of the priority.”
Parent's thinking: If results not so good, try VJC via affiliation route, if excellent results try a so-called "top-tier" JC.
"If the journey of education is about competition in the brightest"
Parent's thinking : "isn't the journey of education about competition for the top tier JC ?"
I feel sad (oh, I am getting emotional here) for VS and VJC
This will be my last comments.
This is actually the first time I have ever participated in an online discussion. I was so inexperienced that I sent essentially the same comments 3 times.
I know that I am in the minority and am expecting to get a bashing.
To my surprise, this has been so far a reasonably well argued discussion.
To the Gentlemen in the Victorians, thank you very much.
Best wishes to VS and VJC.
Imagine VJC did not use VICTORIA then, but marine parade jc do you think her status will be as today. I cannot feel the VICTORIAN's spirit from the JC's, instead of affirming the support of VS the JC prefer to be a direct complement. 饮水思原
sorry, should be "direct competitor"
I prefer the discussion to be at http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=11683824650…
It will be easier to follow each other's points.
To “Thy Victories We Share Yet”.
Maybe I am not good at explaining on how the parents of VS boys feel.
All above discussions (argument?!)have only 1 main concluding point:
VS boys of past and present felt saddened by the ungrateful move of VJC to go IP without considering any further collaboration with VS.
If this move of going IP by VJC has been so logical, I am sure you would not have heard so many voices of dissatisfaction and petitions raised by so many old boys.
That's all I need to say. Good day!
A Historical Perspective of VS Pre-U in the 1970s and the founding of VJC.
NJC started its classes in 1969.
Hwa Chong Junior College in 1974
Catholic Junior College in 1975
A VS student who finished his "O" levels in 1974 could apply to 3 junior colleges instead of staying in VS to do his pre-university education.
Most of the best VS students with good results left for the JCs while those who could not make it to the JCs stayed in VS. These VS students and students from other schools including girls made up the pre-U population.
Not only the better VS students left VS after Sec 4, the good Pre-U teachers also left to teach in the JCs. Teacher turnover was high.
VS Pre-U ended up with weaker students and a shortage of good teachers. Some teachers were redeployed to teach other subjects as well. For example, a Physcis teacher was asked to teach Mathematics.
Subsequently VS became a Pre-U centre for even weaker students, offering a 3 year Pre-U course instead of a 2 years Pre-U course.
VJC was established in 1984 so that the good VS students now have a JC bearing the Victoria name to go to. The rest is the 25 years of VJC that you guys are familiar with.
So yes, most of you are right to say that it was VS students who first helped VJC establish itself as a premier JC. But it was also right to say that VJC helped to retain the best VS students in the Victoria family.
The situation today is the reverse of the 1970s. Then most of best VS students leave for NJC and HCJC. Today most of the best VS students go to VJC but the VS students who cannot meet VJC's entry requirements go to other JCs.
25 years later after the founding of VJC, there are new challenges facing VS and VJC again.
To be continued …
"But it was also right to say that VJC helped to retain the best VS students in the Victoria family."
The above statement sound quite funny.
There were also a substantial no of VS students who could make it to the 3 JCs you named, but chose to stay back in VS Pre-U.
If you look further back, before NJC was born, almost all VS boys who could make it to Pre-U stayed back in VS Pre-U.
Excerpt from Speech by the late Dr Ong Chit Chung:
"The education landscape in Singapore has changed rapidly in the last two decades. We now have SAP schools, independent schools, NUS High School, integrated programmes with “through train”, a cluster of schools as in St. Andrew’s Village and various institutions setting up international schools. Victoria School cannot stand still, lest it be overtaken by other schools. We have to adapt and adjust. We have to re-energize and re-strategize."
http://vs.moe.edu.sg/temp06/Speech%20by%20Dr%20On…
To be continued …
"But it was also right to say that VJC helped to retain the best VS students in the Victoria family."
"As a leading boys' school in Singapore, Victoria School (VS) had had a good proportion of her students being qualified to enter a two-year Junior College course instead of a 3-year Pre-University course since the Junior College (JC) system started in the late 1960s."
http://www.antya.com/wikisearch.php?s=Victoria+Ju…
While VS started being a Pre-University Centre in 1979, by around 1980 it became clear that Victoria School students with better 'O'-level results were choosing to enter other Junior Colleges instead of attending the Pre-U centre of VS after Secondary 4. Victoria School old boys from this period who attended other Junior Colleges after Secondary School included Lieutenant-General Ng Yat Chung – Singapore's Chief of Defence Forces (2003-2007); Major-General Neo Kian Hong – Singapore's incumbent Chief of Army and Major-General Ng Chee Khern – Singapore's incumbent Chief of Air Force. Old Victorians like Dr Ong Chit Chung and the OVA (Old Victorian Association) therefore proposed to Singapore's Ministry of Education (MOE) the idea of a Junior College named after and affiliated to Victoria School. MOE eventually accepted the proposal, and Victoria Junior College was established in 1984 to give graduates of Victoria School an option to join a 2-year Junior College course. VS boys who choose to enter VJC after Secondary 4 can have 2 bonus points on their 'O'-level aggregate score."
Facts vs Myths
Myth: VS has a 133 years history as an all boy secondary school.
Fact: VS started as a primary school, became a secondary school, and had co-ed in year 5 and year 6 students during different phases of her 133 years.
"For we shall not forget" that VS had girls during the 2-year and 3-year Pre-University days.
So when we talk about history and tradition, let us check our facts first. Which part of VS history and which VS tradition ? Let us not conveniently erase those parts that do not support our arguments.
Excerpt from Victoria School Website:
"Victoria School had its origin in an English Class established in 1876 in Kampong Glam Malay School.
From 1900-1932, our school was known as Victoria Bridge School.
Until 1930,Victoria had only primary classes – Primary 1 to Standard 5.
On 18th September 1933, the school moved to Tyrwhitt Road and the school came to be known as Victoria School.
In 1951, the Post School Certificate classes were started. A few girls joined the classes.
In 1979, Victoria School became a Pre-University Center, offering 3-year Pre-University courses instead of the normal two years.
A new chapter began when Victoria Junior College opened its doors at Marine Parade in 1984, and Victoria School moved to its Geylang Bahru site that same year.
In 1993, Victoria School was one of the six pioneer schools, which received autonomous status and is today, a premier secondary school."
"In 1951, the Post School Certificate classes were started. A few girls joined the classes.
In 1979, Victoria School became a Pre-University Center, offering 3-year Pre-University courses instead of the normal two years."
It is a historical fact that from 1951,VS had girls in her "Post School Certificate" and "A" levels classes until VJC started classes in 1984.
"For we shall not forget' our VS girls.
To be continued …
"If this move of going IP by VJC has been so logical, I am sure you would not have heard so many voices of dissatisfaction and petitions raised by so many old boys."
You are neither right nor wrong because the crowd agrees with you. You are right because your facts and reasoning are right.
For 33 years from 1951 to 1984 (could some historian correct me if I am wrong), 33 long years, longer than the 25 years history of VJC, Victoria School had girls. VS GIRLS.
"From 1900-1932, our school was known as Victoria Bridge School.
Until 1930,Victoria had only primary classes – Primary 1 to Standard 5.
On 18th September 1933, the school moved to Tyrwhitt Road and the school came to be known as Victoria School."
Imagine this:
In the 1930s an Old Victoria Bridge Boys Association (OVBBA) started a petition to stop the change to a secondary school called Victoria School.
The government of that time decided in favour of the petition to retain Victoria Bridge School as a primary school.
Some facts:
The reason for this is that VS boys who want to stay on in VS Pre-U could not do so any more as the Pre-U Centres in Singapore has been changed to 3-yr.
"While VS started being a Pre-University Centre in 1979, by around 1980 it became clear that Victoria School students with better ‘O’-level results were choosing to enter other Junior Colleges instead of attending the Pre-U centre of VS after Secondary 4."
Some facts:
1931: Colonial govt elevate VBS to a secondary school.
1932: VBS moved to Jalan Besar area.
1936: VBS renamed VS.
1941: The alumni was formed.
——————————————————–
Imagine this:
In the 1930s an Old Victoria Bridge Boys Association (OVBBA) started a petition to stop the change to a secondary school called Victoria School.
The government of that time decided in favour of the petition to retain Victoria Bridge School as a primary school.
If this hypothetical case had happened
"Imagine this:
In the late 1920s an Old Victoria Bridge Boys Association (OVBBA) started a petition to stop the change to a secondary school called Victoria School.
The government of that time decided in favour of the petition to retain Victoria Bridge School as a primary school"
Then there would not have been a Victoria School !
There would still be a Victoria Bridge School, a primary school.
The hypothetical Old Victoria Bridge Boys Association (OVBBA)would have aborted VS even before it was born.
Do not resist change.
Do not impede progess.
That is what I am trying to say.
OVA says "No" to Co-ed overlooking 30+ years of girls in VS.
OVA now says "No" to Sec 1 IP in VJC.
OVA says change VJC to another name and strip VJC of its Victoria heritage. Can you change the historical facts ?
What remains ?
Just Victoria School.
Other schools grow and expand.
Victoria family schools divide and contract !
These historical facts would not had happened
"Some facts:
1931: Colonial govt elevate VBS to a secondary school.
1932: VBS moved to Jalan Besar area.
1936: VBS renamed VS.
1941: The alumni was formed."
if these had happened:
“Imagine this:
In the late 1920s an Old Victoria Bridge Boys Association (OVBBA) started a petition to stop the change to a secondary school called Victoria School.
The government of that time decided in favour of the petition to retain Victoria Bridge School as a primary school”
You can draw your own conclusion about what OVA is today.
It shoud read:
"You can draw your own conclusion about what OVA is doing today."
Quote "Other schools grow and expand.
Victoria family schools divide and contract !"
I don't think anyone would want Victoria family to divide.
The only reason for the fustration is that why has VJC not taking VS along for the IP route.
It is the division here that starts the whole unhappiness among the Victorians.
Historical fact:
During the days when VS has Pre-U (boys n girls), it was still known as a boys' school. MOE use it, the Straits Times use it. Every one use it.
Agree that OVA and VS should not impede progress, eg being elevated from primary sch to secondary sch. But not when a school that was setup to replace its Pre-U classes, start offering sec classes and become a rival school. Totally 2 different matter.
Pass the word around. http://vs.jonaize.com/index.php
The general feelings so far is that VS has been
side-stepped. VJC, in her eagerness to implement the 6year IP programme, hopes to have " the best and the brightest" PSLE cohort for her academic achievement. There are moral and ethical issues invovled in this connection.
Please read an article penned by a VS/VJC boy named Puar Si Liang in MY PAPER on 18.08.09. His article is enlightening. He came to VS on appeal. His academic and CCA achievements are sterling. You get my point. To me, this is what education is all about and education should give a second chance for late developers.
Main discussion area. Please join in. http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=11683824650…
The Facebook group is not a discussion area. It is more than that.
Joining it means endorsing the agenda of the group.
If I do not wish to endorse but wish to be in the debate, then I can't do so on the Facebook group.
Going to Facebook adds to the "more than 1500 Old Boys" objecting.
"More than 1,500 Old Boys – to date – are objecting to Victoria Junior College’s (VJC) proposal to expand its current four-year Integrated Programme to a six-year one."
That is how the press count. Fact or inaccuracy ?
It should be "more than 1500 Old Boys and Girls and others" discussing.
No, I am not going to Facebook and give the wrong impression to the press and the public.
Guys, I feel that we are going no where. There have been mostly negative reaction to VJC proposal from old boys and some parents alike. There have been many forums to air our views ie. this one, facebook, http://vs.jonaize.com/index.php etc…
I am just NOT sure all these views are being heard by the people who can make the difference ie MOE and VEC.
The principals of VJC and VS have remained tight lipped (perhaps they have to cos they are gov servants).
Why haven't VEC together with OVA issue any statement or directions? I am beginning to feel that OVA has been sidestepped in all this. OVA has been caught unaware.
As I mentioned many months ago, if the Principal of VJC dares to make a press statement then about "VJC mulling over a 6yrs IP program", he must have the blessings of the VEC.
Guys, let's stay focus and engage the VEC instead.
Can OVA organise a dialogue session with the VEC? OR are they apprenhensive of the prospects of facing a largely logical group of old boys? If VEC can table and argue their case and support for VJC, I am sure they have the whole Old Boys community in support rather than this perceived public in-fighting..
Perhaps the Chairman of OVA can comment?
To add to above comment, OVA should get us all tgether with the Principal of VS and let's plan ahead, assuming VJC's proposal is accepted.
Doing nothing now may be another too late!
Perhaps we should invite the VEC to this session as well. I am assuming that VEC looks after the interest of VS as well?
Btw, anybody has any contact, email/blog of the VEC members? We should start engaging them instead cos they are the "silent history makers' for good or bad.
Reply to 1971 Old Boy:
It is too late to engage the VEC now. I think the members of VEC are actually divided on this. President of OVA sit on VEC, and 80% of VEC are old boys who are members of OVA as well.
The group we need to engage now is MOE. We can write to the Education Minister or even the PM, since our PM and government have always emphasized that they are open to all views.
I vague remember our PM or SM Goh highlighting an incident which nobody bother but a woman care, an example for Singaporeans to follow. I cannot recall what was the exact incident.
"There have been mostly negative reaction to VJC proposal from old boys and some parents alike."
From my observations, I think it is just a small group who are against. Even when you consider the Facebook group which has 1500 "members", this is a drop in the ocean compared to the 10000* who have graduated.
Either the other 85% support a strong Victoria brand (to quote the Poll on this website) or don't care.
*CONSERVATIVE ESTIMATE:
VS: 200 graduates per year X last 30 years = 6000
VJC: 200 graduates per year X last 20 years = 4000 (for VJC, there will be some overlap with VS due to students who go from VS to VJC, but considering that my figures are so conservative, I think I err on the side of underestimating rather than overestimating)
Let's check the facts.
There is already an OVA Rep in the VEC/VAC
Mr Teo Wee Leong Vernon
Member/OVA Rep
From VS Website
http://vs.moe.edu.sg/
Victoria Executive and Advisory Commitee
2007 – 2009
LG (NS) Ng Yat Chung (Acting)
Chairman, VEC / VAC
Mr Chiang Chie Foo
Vice Chairman VAC
Mr Richard Teng Eng Moo
Treasurer VAC
Mr Teo Wee Leong Vernon
Member/OVA Rep
Mr Chang Siew Khang
Member
Prof Cheong Hee Kiat
Member
Mr Goh Chye Boon
Member
Mr Ho Meng Kit
Member
Mr Lee Sek Leong Christopher
Member
Mr Liew Choon Boon
Member
Mr Lim Biow Chuan
Member
MG Neo Kian Hong
Member
MG Ng Chee Khern
Member
Mr Tan Cher Liang Sebastian
Member
Mr Teo Ser Luck
Member
Mr William Koo
Member
Mr Low Eng Teong
Secretary, Principal of Victoria School
Mr Chan Poh Meng
Secretary, Principal of Victoria Junior College
List update on 14/08/09
Can we use this upcoming Prata session to discuss/brainstorm on the future of VS with VJC going 6yrs IP? Or should we bring the next Prata session forward?
depending on the turnout, guys, be prepared to cater for more!
OVA can you take the lead? There has been mostly forum, email comments so far but no word from OVA officially, Principal (assume he can’t comment cos he’s gov servant, this we understand)..
I am very concern for this present batch of Sec 4 boys taking their O Level. How will did episode affect them? We need to come together to encourage them and show VJC what the VS boys can do. Perhaps, they should boycott VJC with their good results and go to NJ, Hwa Chong or even the nearby Temasek JC..?? “Prata for thoughts”?
Since there's a OVA rep in OVA/VEC, can Mr. Vernon update us officially? He's been very quiet as well. Can we convene a session for OVA and get us updated? We can discuss an action plan moving forward with the new look VS without the cord to VJC!
As reported in New Paper, MOE has already started evaluating the proposal.
A thread to brainstorm the blockage is in Facebook.
The most effective ones are:
1. Petition. Petition will be send to Education Minister. OVA had previously sent a letter of appeal to Edun Minister. We need to reach out to more people.
2. Writing to the press in our own capacity. Like what Puar Si Liang did yesterday.
3. Writing/Email to Edun Minister or even PM in our own capacity.
The aim is to get MOE not to make a decision on the proposal hastily, and to ask VJC to explore further all options.
People who have Facebook accounts are mostly youngsters.
I don't think this time around, OVA will send a petition to MOE because it concerns VJC as well. OVA, at the present moment, represents both schools. Mr. Vernon sits on the VEC board and he's been so quiet..Why wasn't there "a leak news" of VJC's proposal? Maybe he can't cos he's in the board, this we understand.
Then I say, there's a conflict of interest?
OVA has sent an appeal to MOE.
The petition is done by a group of VS boys who were only Sec 4s 2 yrs ago and who organized the petition against co-ed 2 yrs ago.
OVA has done its part. And there is a limit to what OVA can do. I asked that OVA email all OVA members on the petition and there was no response.
So the tasks ahead lie with the Facebook group. Perhaps you can participate as well.
"The petition is done by a group of VS boys who were only Sec 4s 2 yrs ago and who organized the petition against co-ed 2 yrs ago."
This is a vocal minority in my view.
Do they represent OVA ?
Is their petition endorsed by OVA ?
Who is the so-called spokesperson of OVA who spoke with the press ?
Are they in fact only self-proclaimed representatives of OVA without the official endorsement of OVA ?
attahced is a message from an old VS boy from the first batch of VJC students, as reproduced from Mr Randell Siow's blog. Come on you Victorians!
http://mrsiow.blogspot.com/2009/08/future-for-vs….
It seems that this campaign/petition is organised by a group of army boys/undergraduates/JC students.
More mature members of OVA may have to step forward and take the lead to adopt a more conciliatory approach to work out a mutually beneficial solution for VS and VJC.
A suggestion. Ask the boys to read:
Getting to YES
Negotiating Agreement Without Giving In
by Roger Fisher and William Ury
Reply to Victoria Reunite,
You do sound genuinely concern about this issue and believe everyone respects your views. Sense you are busy trying to convince many on this blog why VJC shd be allowed to go 6 yrs IP on their own. However I am much disturbed by your 2 posts directed at the 1) online petition and 2) Facebook account.
Really appreciate if you can direct your passion in the right direction and do respect (which i believe every Victorian will have) the views of others including the young ones (army/uni/jc/even current VS boys). They reserve their rights to voice their concerns cos they are Victorians – just like you and I. It doesn't make one's voice louder or more important when he/she is older? richer? of higher social status? smarter (a scholar maybe)? more handsome or prettier? better articulated or written? lives in a bungalow? drives a sexy ferrari?
On the contrary, we shd take their views more seriously cos:
1) they are closer to the ground/education landscape since they are freshier out of VS/VJC.
2) as our govt mentioned countless times, youth needs to start playing bigger role as they are going to be Singapore leaders of tomorrow(PAP youth wing – starts young).
Even if they are young and may not be very mature, pls do not simply strike them off. Instead as seniors, we shd encourage them to take on a more responsible role. Sometimes what's on their mind may even turn the heads of great minds. Recommend a book to you too – Mister God, this is Anna – by Fynn
Though the petition is (or maybe) started by a bunch of army/uni/jc students, pls do not assume those who signed on the petition are ONLY young people since you do not have access to the results of the online poll. Have heard Victorians in their 50S/60s signing that petition too.
With regards to facebook, I respect your reason for not joining too. But pls do not also put the creator/members down cos they are simply passionate VICTORIANS…
Lastly, pardon a simple and youthful suggestion of my, you can try creating a media platform of greater maturity to gather supporters of same view or for a higher intellectual level of discussion.
Frankly, I am more impressed by this "group of army boys/undergraduates/JC students" in taking the lead in the petition and facebook group. My concern is whether the people at the top can eventually get to hear their voices.
So here it is from fjmv, Victorian- Class of 83 (pioneer batch VJC)
******************************************************
My Dearest Fellow Victorians,
I am not good in my English Language but I shall attempt to write something from my heart. This is more meant for those who walked through both VS and VJC. For my fellow VJ friends who had not come from VS, feel free to also read it. Perhaps it may give you some insights into why VS students fight so passionately about this issue. Let me begin….
Remember a day in 1983, we were told that there will be a college soon to be named after Victoria. Recall the joy and jubilation in our hearts….the hearts of young 16 year old boys who knew nothing much about the world outside but all eager and ready to do what it takes to keep another Victorian flag unfurled (the VJC flag that is).
Without much hesitation, almost all of us chose VJC as our first choice. At that point of time, we did not know if VJC would ever emerge as a top college. The thoughts in our minds then were not whether in future, we could name a top college in our resume or whether we belong to an elite school that rule or own Singapore. All we wanted was to be able to help her grow because she carries the name we loved.
Have you ever thought why we had behaved so ‘senselessly’ during that time? Why had we not gone to the top colleges at that time so that we can be associated with the elite of Singapore?
What had Victoria done to brainwash us to do such a ‘senseless’ act…that is to go to a totally new college…with no reputation to begin with?
Did Victoria taught us to be the top academically…otherwise we do not deserved to be a Victorian? Did Victoria insisted that we must obtain GOLD in uniformed groups, sports and the aesthetics…..otherwise we do not deserved to be a Victorian? I would like to believe not. We had behaved so ‘senselessly’ because we came from a school who loved us no matter what, spur us on even when we fail, reprimand us when we do wrong, teach us to grow up with a heart.
We had given two of the best years of our lives to help build a NAME we believed in, a college which we hope to pass on to our fellow junior Victorians. Many Victorians, who came before us (but did not have the privilege to be VJ students), also contributed much time and money to the college for the same believe. But each year, as the cut-off point for VJ goes lower and lower, fewer and fewer VS students qualify for VJC (about 100 out of 320 a year). Imagine you are a true-blooded VS student who worked hard, wished to continue to keep the Victoria flag unfurled but could not.
Have we given birth to a college, only to have it squashed the ‘mother’ to death?
Is being the best and the most renowned the only way to keep the Victorian flag unfurled?
Do spare a minute to reflect on the poem written by Prof Edwin Thumboo (see your yearbook), which we all loved so much. Think of what drove him to write these words:
‘We did not returned to you mother, because we never really left’
Would we not love Victoria if she had dropped from 10th position to 50th position in ranking? No way, we would still love her because she first loved us!
VICTORIANS, FIGHT ON!!!!
From a humble VS boy of the 1983 batch, pioneer VJ student,
Who did not make it big in society today
But believed that Victoria loved him nonetheless
******************************************************
Reply to those who want to have a go at the OVA…
You seem to have a negative impression of OVA which you maybe (maybe only) right about. But do note OVA = Old Victorians' Association which represents alumni at large regardless he/she is a member of OVA and that includes you. Believe you are referring to the OVA Mgt Council.
On 28/Feb, OVA calls for feedback "Public consultation on the future of VS and VJC" that lasted for almost 3 mths via this same website. Hope you didn't miss that chance to air your views.
Do think OVAMC has done a REKATIVELY good job (in my view) in organising 2 major events this yr for alumni – Gala Dinner (march) @ Ritz and Gala Concert (june) @ Esplanade. Hope you too didn't miss any of them. Before commenting on the performance of these Victorians who volunteered their personal time to contribute, a recommendation will be for you to volunteer your service at one of the events (one will be enough). But even before that you may want to sign up as OVA member if you have not done so at https://www.ova.org.sg/wp-content/uploads/2009/02…
Extracted from My Paper (18/Aug/2009)
=====================================
"VJC will become too exclusive if it implements 6-year IP"
AS AN alumnus of both Victoria School (VS) and Victoria Junior College (VJC), I am dismayed to learn that VJC is going to implement a six-year integrated programme (IP).
VJC has firmly established itself as a premier educational institution in the eastern part of Singapore. Therefore, it has a duty to serve the schools and students in the area.
The reputable junior college is an alternative to Raffles Institution (RI) and Hwa Chong Institution (HCI), and many students living in the east aspire to be a part of its “work hard, play hard” culture.
The importance of alternatives cannot be overstated in a country where diversity is celebrated.
By accepting students from a wide range of secondary schools, a junior college gains “something extra” by fostering different perspectives and thinking styles among its students.
This is the case with VJC. However, by going ahead with a six-year IP, fewer students will qualify for the junior college. Secondary 2 students from other schools will no longer be able to enrol in the IP.
If it goes ahead with the sixyear IP, VJC will end up competing with the other secondary schools in the area. This will have a detrimental effect on every school.
The members of VJC’s administration should rethink their roles as educators. Education should be about passing on knowledge and moral values to students, rather than a competition to be the best school.
By implementing a six-year IP, VJC would lose its identity as a school for the masses. Secondary-school students in the east would find VJC a more distant goal as there would be fewer places available for O-level students.
Finally, I am disappointed because VJC’s move will sever its historic ties with VS. Instead
of working together to “keep the Victorian spirit strong”, the two schools would become rivals in the competition for students.
I hope VJC will do more to explain how it will maintain the Victorian spirt after this move.
Mr Puar Si Liang
Reply to "Learn to Respect Others",
On OVA, I think some are just frustrated. We have come to a stage where it is almost "a point of no return". We really should focus on the next action points and there is no time to lose.
Reply to By Learn to Respect Others
"Lastly, pardon a simple and youthful suggestion of my, you can try creating a media platform of greater maturity to gather supporters of same view or for a higher intellectual level of discussion."
I don't see a need to as my comments have already drawn you out here.
" Instead as seniors, we shd encourage them to take on a more responsible role."
That is why:
"A suggestion. Ask the boys to read:
Getting to YES
Negotiating Agreement Without Giving In
by Roger Fisher and William Ury"
There is no point in strenously countering all the arguments (and sounding personal now) which is futile as passion now ride high, and we will not get to YES.
What is the real bone of contention ?
THAT VJC WILL BE COMPETING WITH VS FOR SEC 1 INTAKE.
Come out with a solution that resolve this and the Victoria Reunited family will live happily ever after.
The option has been posted. Study it carefully and calmly and if you agree with it support it passionately.
Proposed Victoria Model
(Common VS-VJC 6 Year IP)
Victoria Boys: VS
Year 1 – 4
Victoria Girls: VJC (Sec)
Year 1 – 4
Victoria Boys and Girls: VJC (JC)
Year 5 – 6
VJC and VS offer a common VS-VJC VIP
***
The Victoria Model is actually the flip side of the Raffles Model.
Victoria Model
Girls – 6 years in VJC
Boys – 4 years in VS and 2 years in VJC
Raffles Model
Boys – 6 Years in RI
Girls – 4 Years in RGS and 2 Years in RI
No need for change of name. No need for co-ed at VS.
The girls are in RGS in the Raffles Model whereas the girls are in VJC in the Victoria Model.
The boys are still in the all-boy schools, VS in the Victoria Model and RI in the Raffles Model.
***
SEC 1 Intake
VS recruit boys for Sec 1
VS remains all boy secondary school. This will make you guys happy.
VS boys are part of common VS-VJC VIP
VJC recruit girls from Sec 1
This will also appeal to parents of top girls who do not want to send their girls to co-ed secondary schools.
VJC will have a secondary division and a JC division.
VJC secondary division is an all girl secondary school
VJC JC division is a co-ed school.
Supplementary SEC 3 Intake
VS takes in Sec 3 boys
VJC takes in Sec 3 girls
Students from other schools and foreign scholars have a chance to apply to VS and VJC.
Suplementary JC 1 Intake
Students from other secondary schools have a chance to enrol after "O" levels to VJC.
I think this is a win-win for VS and VJC and will make
Victoria Reunited.
If you want, you can post it on Facebook for the members there to study.
You cannot just protest and oppose. You must offer an alternative.
Reply to "Victoria Reunite",
Agree with you. But in order to do what you had suggested, the present proposal by vjc to moe has to be shelved, which is the reason for the petition and other methods mentioned earlier. We really have to focus on this now.
"As such, we believe that VS can be a part of this 6 year programme proposed by VJC without compromising her 133 years of heritage if other options can be considered and discussed at length with sincerity, humility and a genuine concern for a meaningful, all-rounded education, it will not only benefit students of the two institutions, but also the nation.
If you sincerely believe in this cause and wish to support this, please sign the petition. "
http://vs.jonaize.com/index.php
Anyway, I have put yr suggestion in Facebook under "Alternatives to VJC's IP proposal". Would prefer to join in the Facebook if there is any discussion as it is yr model/suggestion. http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=11683824650…
Reply to By Learn to Respect Others
The Proposed Victoria Model (coomon VS-VJC 6 Year VIP) actually uses the methods in
Getting to YES
Negotiating Agreement Without Giving In
by Roger Fisher and William Ury”
(The book is available at the NUS Co-op Bukit Timah and Kent Ridge. I think it is recommended reading for NUS first year law student).
Essentially the method is:
Separate the PEOPLE from the Problem
Focus on INTERESTS, Not Positions
Invent OPTIONS for Mutual Gain
Insist on Using Objective CRITERIA
Look at it carefully. It also respect the views of others -the group of army boys/undergraduates/JC students.
VS remains an all boy secondary school.
VS becomes the Sec 1 – Sec 4 boy school partner of VJC in the VS-VJC joint IP.
The option also respects the view of the adminstrator's of VJC.
VJC gets to recurit girls in Sec 1 and Sec 3 by becoming the Sec 1 – Sec 4 girl school partner. There is no need to try to rope in an existing girl school. VJC just create a secondary school division for girls.
I personally prefer a single sex education separately for boys and girls from Sec 1 to Sec 4. Here I am with you guys.
Implementation is up to the VAC/VEC, management and teachers of VJC and VS.
(Yes, I am "Thy Victories We Share Yet" writing as "Victoria Reunite". I had wanted to stop after my "last comments" to go back to my family and business. I like the passion of you guys but feel that you need some guidance to deal with this.)
"Anyway, I have put yr suggestion in Facebook under “Alternatives to VJC’s IP proposal”. Would prefer to join in the Facebook if there is any discussion as it is yr model/suggestion. http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=11683824650…
Thank you very much Old Boy.
I will follow the discussion on Facebook.
However I will not join the Facebook group nor sign the petition as it then involves taking sides and I will be tempted to dig in deeper and get entrenched into the position.
It violates
"Focus on INTERESTS, Not Positions"
I hope to write for the mutually beneficial INTERESTS of VS and VJC.
This is OVA's blog – hopefully regarded as more objective.
You may direct the guys and gals there to comment here.
Can i ask, when will the petition gathered in http://vs.jonaize.com/index.php be send to MOE? Who is going to represent this group? Do we have enough? What is the target?
Remember, the VJC proposal is already on the table of MOE. Time is of essence.
I think we should not just voice of opposition but ask that the proposal be further fine tuned taking into VS consideration. The point here is there should be more consultation. However, who are they going to consult? OVA or the group of old boys?
Remember the facts. VJC's proposal is with the blessing of VEC. VOA and VS has a sole representation each in VEC. I think Mr. Veron's and VS Principal's hands are tied. This we have to be understanding.
That being the case, what is our option? I suggest a OVA group dialogue with the VEC. Preferbaly a forum.
comments..?
Looking forward, assuming VJC's proposal get approve in it's tatality, I think OVA's position will be a difficult one, knowing that a vast majority of OVA members are not supportive.
Do we then need to form a separate VJC OVA and VS OVA, each having it's own agenda and events (fund raising etc..)?
I think memebers of OVA need to discuss.
To put on record, I am an OVA member..
First of all, any alternative model must get the support of the Facebook group and OVA.
No point for me or anyone to write to the Minister or the Perm Sec and then have another petition against it.
Then we will live unhappily ever after again.
Let us see whether the Facebook group and the people here support the Proposed Victoria Model
(Common VS-VJC 6 Year IP).
Reply to "Victoria Reunite",
Your proposal already have supporters in Facebook.
Reply to 1971 Old Boy,
No date has been set for the peitition. The number needed – the more the merrier. The petition is into its 4th day, but there are less than 600 signatures so far.
I like the word you use – "fine-tuning".
Members in OVA can take the lead, don't have to represent OVA.
But instead of discussing this in 2 different platforms, why don't discuss the new proposal in Facebook?
You can setup whatever id you want in Facebook but it is better that you guys put in your points there.
Thank you again, Old Boy.
I am following the posts in the Facebook on the Proposed Victoria Model
(Common VS-VJC 6 Year IP.
Will read all the posts and observe for a while before deciding whether to participate.
Don;t have to insist on Facebook as some may not have or want to register. Take both comments from here and facebook.. agree? Whatever "trackable" platform and comfortable for interested parties..
600 signatures is not a very strong mandate I'm afraid. More need to be rallied from OVA (just like the co-ed issue).
Someone help me here. I have a personal face account. Do I need to sign on to this particular one? How do I post my comments cos was trying to navigate around.
Forgive me, born in the 50s..haha..
hi 1971 old boy,
if you already have a facebook account, just search for the group "The Faithful & Grateful Sons of Victoria".
You should be directed to the group, and from there, you can post your comments. 🙂
"RI & RJC MERGER: RGS RETAINS INDEPENDENCE
Raffles Girls’ School will be independent of the merger of Raffles Institution and Raffles Junior College, which takes effect on 1 Jan 2009."
RGS Website http://www.rgs.edu.sg/newsite/news/2009RI-RJCMerg…
Why VJC should not start a new Victoria Girl School but instead just start secondary classes as part of the JC, say VJC (secondary school division).
If a new school, say Victoria Girl School is founded, whether by VJC or by VS, over time, the school may want to exert its independence like RGS.
It is just like VJC now wanting to go its own way when VS does not agree to its proposals.
It should be:
Why VJC should not start a new Victoria Girl School but instead just start secondary classes for girls as part of the JC, say VJC (secondary school division).
If a new school, say Victoria Girl School is founded, whether by VJC or by VS, over time, the school may want to exert its independence like RGS.
It is just like VJC now wanting to go its own way when VS does not agree to its proposals.
Why VJC should just start secondary classes for girls and not found a separate secondary girl school.
VJC with secondary classes for girls only will be unique, the first and only JC to offer IP from Sec 1 with single sex education for 4 years (Yr 1 – Yr 4) and should appeal to this group of parents:
1. parents who want an all girl school for their daughters for year 1 to year 4
2. parents who want to feel proud of their daughters entering a premier JC from Sec 1. (A separate Victoria Girls School will not have that effect as it is not a JC).
It should be:
VJC with secondary classes for girls only will be unique, the first and only JC with single sex education for girls for 4 years (Yr 1 – Yr 4)
RGS independence does not matter. It has been independence since Day 1. What it mean is that RGS does not become (part of) RI.
Facts: RGS started as a girl's section in RI then separated and founded as RGS.
http://www.rgs.edu.sg/newsite/abt_milestone.html
1844 – 1878
A girl's section was formed at Raffles Institution with a small enrolment of 11.
1879: official founding of RGS
Raffles Girls' School functioned and operated as a separate and independent entity from the Boys' section of Raffles Institution.
Hi 1971 Old Boy,
On your question whether there will be 2 Victorians almunis, I think this is inevitable. In the past, some non-VS VJC students wanted a separate VJC alumni too. Almost every one is against it.
But now that VJC is competing against VS, I will find it hard to support VJC, so the parting of almunis is in the best interest of both institutions. And there will be fewer VS-VJC students in the future too.
VS 2009 intake PSLE T-Score
Aggregate range of 2008 Primary 6 pupils posted to 2009 Secondary 1
Lower Upper Mean Median
246 270 252 251
http://app.sis.moe.gov.sg/schinfo/SIS_SearchDtls….
The mean and median from 2006 – 2008 have stayed fairly stable at about 250 which means that the intake is about the top 10% of the cohort.
The IP was first started by the secondary schools with GEP classes (top 1%) as an extension of the GEP programme to the rest of their schools as these schools take in the top 2-3% of the cohort.
Now the schools offering IPs have intakes with PSLE T-Score of at least 250 and above.
In other words, the current situation is that only the top 10% of the cohort get to enrol in an IP.
Given that VS mean/median PSLE T-Score are at about 250, VS should be able to attract boys with PSLE T-Score of 250 and above for a joint VIP with VJC.
A certain number of students can also enrol through DSA.
If the details of the purported VJC's proposal are correct:
VJC to take in 120 Sec 1 students
then the VJC mgmt must have already taken the resource constraint into consideration.
The Proposed Victoria Model (Common VS-VJC 6 Year VIP)
recommends just modifying the VJC's proposal to take in 120 girls instead of 120 boys and girls.
So the "small" VJC campus should not be an obstacle.
Longer term, VJS, VS, VEC/VAC and OVA can work together to identify larger new sites and propose them to the government.
(There is a rumour that RGS is moving to Braddell Hill, just opposite the road from RI.
You may take a look at the Singapore Master Plan 2008.
Master Plan 2008 http://www.ura.gov.sg/mp08/map.jsf?goToRegion=SIN…
Type in Braddell Hill in Search and look for the big plot of land earmarked E (education) next to Braddell Road opposite RI and the place of worship)
After this matter has been settled, you can also study the master plan and help to identify new sites.
To Learn to Respect Others
Form a task force, comprising of all your VS/VJC friends, and the "group of army boys/undergraduates/JC students" to study the Master Plan 2008 and help to look for new larger sites for VJC andd VS.
Master Plan 2008 http://www.ura.gov.sg/mp08/map.jsf?goToRegion=SIN…
I do respect your passion and energy.
The GEP takes in the top 1% and some have branded it elitist. Each cohort is about 50,000 so the GEP takes in about 500 – 550.
The top 10% of a cohort comprises about 5000 students.
Of course the the VS-VJC VIP may aim to attract the top 5%, that is competing for students from a pool of 2500 students.
Is it elitist ?
It is just a matter of opinion and perception.
Is this elitist ?
VS Notable Alumni http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victoria_School#Nota…
VJC Notable Alumni http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victoria_Junior_Coll…
VJC Illustrious Alumni http://www.vjc.moe.edu.sg/xxv/
Reply to Victoria Reunite,
It will not be easy for MOE to get prime locations in the East for VS and VJC. VS took 20 years to get the Siglap Link site. And this is after Goh Chok Tong step in for RI for RI and RJC to be near each other.
Look at the list of alumnus in wiki site in another way, they are models for present Victorians to strive for. Almost all schools in Wiki do it. So it certainly is not elistist.
To Victoria Reunite,
FYI I do not know the “group of army boys/undergraduates/JC students” and my previous comments are from a purely neutral view. Hope you won't take it too personal. However if so, pls do accept my sincere apology.
Land in Singapore is limited and the call much comes from the government especially large sites. You do sound influential and am impressed with your knowledge and the amount of research you have put in. Thus would like to invite you to lend the OVAMC a helping hand. They are only a voluntary group of passionate Victorians from various walks of lives so your valuable insights may open many new ideas and breakthrough in this issue.
Just search through this site. Believe you can contact them directly via info@ova.org.sg
Indeed Victoria reunite…
Someone has also said in the Facebook discussion that the GEP has been extended to become/all in the IP so that GEP/IP instake is now the top 10% of PSLE students in Singapore.
Believe OVA is a better platform to propose such move to larger sites as they are more official as alumni than pockets of old boys out there. Further OVA can gather more concrete input with the schools for a proposal.
BTW I have already contacted OVA via the email above to look at how best my little might may serve my alma mater.
Come on all Victorians… our mother is in need and it is time for us to return… let's do not be NATO…
To Old Boy,
That's what I heard too. Even for the general primary schools, MOE has extended the teaching philosophy of GEP (Pri) to the general. An example is the teaching of modeling in math. This was a concept taught only in GEP back during my days.
I think "Victoria Reunite" prefer to assist in whatever way he can in the background, not in the limelight. We respect his decision.
Here is another old VS boy who is making a name for himself as a film director, Mr Boris Boo.
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/boris-boo/4/b28/5a7
Scions of Victoria
"Victoria thy scions are we,"
There had been some unease about girls having to sing "Victoria thy sons are we"
A simple solution: just replace "sons" with "scions".
Meaning of scion: (literary) a young member of a rich and famous family.
Think of a rich and famous family as a "rich in tradition" and famous school
"Victoria In Singapore,
There are other schools we know,
Victoria is something more,
The school that watch'd us grow.
For here we've learnt and striven too.
And played the sportsman's game;
Victoria, we give to you
The honour that you claim.
Victoria thy scions are we,
And we will not forget,
Victoria thy triumphs see,
And victories we share yet.
For others came before and went,
And carried to the world,
Victoria's fame and our intent
To keep her flag unfurled."
Scions of Victoria
A problem ?
sons: one vowel sound , in phonetics, a monothong
scions: 3 vowel sounds, in phonetics, a triphthong.
If this is a problem , a musician can modify the music score slightly just like changing "Victoria School" to "Victoria".
Summary of Issues and Solutions
***
Issue 1
VJC will be competing with VS for Sec 1 students
Solution:
Common VJC-VS 6 Year VIP
VJC and VS collaborate and design a Common VJC-VS 6 Year VIP
VJC takes in only girls for her Sec 1 and Sec 3 supplementary intake (if any)
VS takes in only boys for her Sec 1 and Sec 3 supplementary intake (if any)
VS boys will join the girls in VJC in year 5.
***
Issue 2
School Anthem:
"Victoria thy sons are we"
Solution:
Change to
"Victoria thy scions are we"
***
Issue 3
Campus Size
Solution:
Look for larger plots of land for VJC and VS to move to.
***
To Learn to Respect Others
You can form a task force to look at some alternative sites.
Two sites for brainstorming.
1. Site originially reserved for the failed University of New South Wales Campus. This may be now meant for the 4th University. Make a study of it and have a go at it. (Understand that the current RI campus in Bishan was originally meant for a polytechnic).
2. Old Police Academy Site at Thomson Road (There was a rumour some time back that this site was offered to RGS). This area is becoming an educational enclave with SJI and the universities at Balestier Road. Well, if large enough and approved, VS and VJC will have to move out of the East.
RI Bishan site was meant for a JC. That's my understanding.
About scion/son in the anthem, and VS/VJC moving (VS can't be moving as it has just moved and an indoor sports hall just completed 1 mth ago at $5 million).
What is crucial is in blocking the present VJC's proposal. Without that, no point talking further.
"What is crucial is in blocking the present VJC’s proposal. Without that, no point talking further."
Submit an alternative proposal which is acceptable to VEC/VAC, VJC, VS and OVA and is better than VJC's purported proposal.
"VS can’t be moving as it has just moved and an indoor sports hall just completed 1 mth ago at $5 million)."
Then just focus on the VJC's purported intake of 120 students.
Propose a common VJC-VS 6 Year VIP starting from this batch.
Propose VJC takes in 120 girls in Sec 1 for the common VJC-VS 6 Year VIP
Propose VS takes in Sec 1 boys for the common VJC-VS 6 Year VIP
This is a simple solution with some minor modifications of VJC's proposal.
Propose this as a modification rather than an opposition to VJC's proposal (you also "save face" for VJC)
To Old Boy
If you think that it is urgent, then you may submit this alternative proposal to
1. MOE – both Minister and Permanent Secretary
2. VEC/VAC – Acting Chairman
3. VJC – Principal
4. VS – Principal
5. OVA – President
simultaneously so that that people (1-5) have an alternative to compare with VJC's.
The late Dr Ong Chit Chung:
"Let's start from the beginning.
Many years ago, in the late 70s and 80s, Victoria School was relegated to the conduct of three years' Pre-university programmes. Victoria School was languishing in the back waters of Jalan Besar. Our best and brightest from Victoria School, much against their hearts' desires, had to leave and go to junior colleges.
National Junior College and Hwa Chong Junior College were the toast of the town.
A group of old Victorians headed by Mr Wong Hung Khim,
Mr Ong Teong Pim and myself agonised over the unsatisfactory situation and came up with the proposal to establish Victoria Junior College.
It was a most difficult task. Many, including the then VS principal, said that it could not be done and that Victoria Junior College would remain a pipe dream.
But we persevered. The Ministry of Education finally gave the approval for the establishment of Victoria Junior College."
Excerpt from speech by Dr Ong Chit Chung at the farewell dinner in honour of Mrs Lee Phui Mun on 28 Nov 2001.
How Victoria School got its Siglap site.
The late Dr Ong Chit Chung:
"Let me give you an example of a passion, creative and persistent approach of Phui Mun. For the last few years, VEC was championing a new site for VS, to anchor the school for the 21st century.
We know land is precious and good sites are hard to come by. The Ministry offered us numerous site and we thought we had not much choice but to settle for a site that was less than ideal but Mrs Lee never gave up.
She cares passionately for Victoria. She called me and told me "you must come and see the Siglap bus depot, that is the site for VS." She told us that the site was ideal, close to VJC. VS and VJC will then develop a close nexus.
She called me again and again. I had no choice but to call my contacts in the Ministry of Education and Ministry of National Development. I thought that would be impossible. It is a prime site, already zoned for condominium development.
It told no less than the approval of two ministers to secure the site for us at Siglap. For this Phui Mun, Victoria School is forever indebted to you"
Excerpt from speech by Dr Ong Chit Chung at the farewell dinner in honour of Mrs Lee Phui Mun on 28 Nov 2001.
Think the coming Prata Breakfast will be the dialogue session for this.
How Victoria School got its Siglap site.
"Many of you may not know that it was Chit Chung, among others like Wong Hung Kim, who played a
key role in finding a location for Victoria School when it was proposed to relocate the school from Kallang Bahru. The site that was identified for the relocation was not very attractive. Chit Chung approached and pressed me to persuade the
Ministry of National Development to allocate a better site, nearer to Victoria Junior College. I was fortunate to be able to persuade the Minister to allocate the site at Siglap Link to the new Victoria School."
Excerpt from speech by Mr S Dhanabalan at The Victorian Gala Dinner on 8 March 2009.
https://www.ova.org.sg/wp-content/uploads/2009/02…
It should be:
"It took no less than the approval of two ministers to secure the site for us at Siglap."
"Victoria School is something more………….."
Hope the school song reverts to the original words of the composer.
How Victoria School got its Siglap site
Key players:
Mrs Lee Phui Mun
1st Principal
Victoria Junior College
Dr Ong Chit Chung
Chairman, VEC/VAC
Mr S Dhanabalan
The reason why VS shifted to Marine Parade after 20 yrs of trying is because of Goh Chok Tong pushing it for RI/RJC. But VS was allocated a site not so ideal and not so near to VJC. Hence the appeal which was approved later.
"The reason why VS shifted to Marine Parade after 20 yrs of trying is because of Goh Chok Tong pushing it for RI/RJC."
Any authoritative source ? Speech ? Writings ?
i vaguely recalled that when Mr Goh was the PM, he reportedly suggested something about schools such as RI and VS should try to locate their campuses near their affiliated JCs so that the younger students would have the opportunity to interact with the seniors (those in the JCs) as in the days when those schools had pre u classes within the same campuses? Was not this that somehow spurred the move to relocate VS near to VJC?
Yes, vsspurs. You are right. It was one of the headlines in newspapers, but could not find on internet. If I am not wrong, Goh may not have named any school (unconfirmed). But it was meant for RI/RJC. Someone suggested in Facebook that RI/RJC may have met some obstacles. Goh intervened. VS and St Andrew's (Village) benefited by jumping on to the bandwagon.
But instead of what Goh has mentioned = "so that the younger students would have the opportunity to interact with the seniors (those in the JCs)", the JC is going to become a rival school for VS soon.
How Victoria School got its Siglap site
"For this Phui Mun (1st Principal of VJC), Victoria School is forever indebted to you.
Excerpt from speech by Dr Ong Chit Chung at the farewell dinner in honour of Mrs Lee Phui Mun on 28 Nov 2001.
Gifted Education Programme: Integrated Programme
http://www.moe.edu.sg/education/programmes/gifted…
The Integrated Programmes (IP) have been implemented since the beginning of 2004 to provide a seamless secondary and Junior College enriched education without requiring pupils to sit the GCE O-Level Examination. The time “saved” by not having to prepare for the GCE O-Level Examination is used to develop pupils’ intellectual curiosity, encourage them to undertake research work and provide a broad-based education that is more in tune with desired real-world competencies.
The IP are currently offered in 11 schools. Of these 11 schools, 7 schools offer School-Based Gifted Education (SBGE) to cater to the intellectually gifted. These 7 schools are Anglo-Chinese School (Independent), Dunman High School, Hwa Chong Institution (High School), Nanyang Girls’ High School, NUS High School of Mathematics and Science, Raffles Girls’ School (Secondary) and Raffles Institution. The other 4 schools that offer the IP are River Valley High School, National Junior College,Temasek Junior College and Victoria Junior College. These 4 schools offer their own IP which are not equivalent to SBGE.
IP Models
Model 1
Anglo-Chinese School (Independent), Dunman High School, NUS High School of Mathematics and Science and River Valley High School offer a 6-year IP starting at Secondary 1. The terminal qualification of the Anglo-Chinese School (Independent) IP is the International Baccalaureate (IB) Diploma, while that for the Dunman High School IP and the River Valley High School IP is the GCE A-Level Examination. The NUS High School diploma is awarded at the end of the NUS High School of Mathematics and Science IP.
Model 2
A family of schools with strong affiliations, comprising secondary schools and their affiliated Junior College, provides integrated education from Secondary 1 to JC. Raffles Institution and Raffles Girls’ School (Secondary) together with Raffles Junior College form one family. Hwa Chong Institution has its High School Section and College Section, which are formerly known as The Chinese High School and Hwa Chong Junior College respectively. Nanyang Girls’ High School implemented its Integrated Programme by collaborating with Hwa Chong Institution. The terminal qualification for the Raffles family and Hwa Chong family of schools is the GCE A-Level Examination.
Model 3
National Junior College, Temasek Junior College and Victoria Junior College start their IP from Secondary 3, thus offering a 4-year high school programme. The terminal qualification is the GCE A-Level Examination.
National Junior College will extend its 4-year (Sec 3 to JC 2) IP to a 6-year programme (Sec 1 to JC 2) in 2009. The school will admit students from Secondary 1, with effect from January 2009. The terminal qualification of the 6-year programme is the GCE A-Level Examination.
The current VJC IP Model (Model 3)
The other 4 schools that offer the IP are River Valley High School, National Junior College,Temasek Junior College and Victoria Junior College. These 4 schools offer their own IP which are not equivalent to SBGE.
Model 3
National Junior College, Temasek Junior College and Victoria Junior College start their IP from Secondary 3, thus offering a 4-year high school programme. The terminal qualification is the GCE A-Level Examination.
National Junior College will extend its 4-year (Sec 3 to JC 2) IP to a 6-year programme (Sec 1 to JC 2) in 2009. The school will admit students from Secondary 1, with effect from January 2009. The terminal qualification of the 6-year programme is the GCE A-Level Examination.
http://www.moe.edu.sg/education/programmes/gifted…
School-Based Gifted Education (SBGE) Programmes
School-based gifted education (SBGE) programmes are offered in 7 IP schools. The SBGE programmes are designed and implemented by the schools with specialist advice from the Ministry of Education. The schools that offer SBGE are Anglo-Chinese School (Independent) [ACS(I)], Dunman High School [DHS], Hwa Chong Institution [HCI], Nanyang Girls’ High School [NYGH], NUS High School of Mathematics and Science [NUSHS], Raffles Girls᾿ School (Secondary) [RGS(S)] and Raffles Institution [RI]. These programmes start at Secondary 1 and culminate either in the A-Level Examination for DHS, HCI, NYGH, RGS(S) and RI, or the International Baccalaureate for ACS(I) or the NUS High School Diploma for NUSHS.
Pupils in HCI and NYGH will study in their respective campus in the first 4 years of the programme and continue at HCI (College Section) in the final 2 years, while those in RGS(S) and RI will go to RJC after the first 4 years.
Pupils in ACS(I), DHS and NUSHS will complete the 6-year programmes in their respective campus.
http://www.moe.edu.sg/education/programmes/gifted…
The current VJC IP Model (Model 3) is not a School-Based Gifted Education (SBGE) Programme.
"The other 4 schools that offer the IP are River Valley High School, National Junior College,Temasek Junior College and Victoria Junior College.
These 4 schools offer their own IP which are not equivalent to SBGE."
Proposed Victoria Model(Common VJC-VS 6 Year VIP) is a Model 2 and School-based gifted education (SBGE) programme.
***
Proposed Victoria Model
(Common VJC-VS 6 Year VIP)
Victoria Boys: VS
Year 1 – 4
Victoria Girls: VJC (Sec)
Year 1 – 4
Victoria Boys and Girls: VJC (JC)
Year 5 – 6
VJC and VS offer a common VJC-VS VIP
***
Model 2
A family of schools with strong affiliations, comprising secondary schools and their affiliated Junior College, provides integrated education from Secondary 1 to JC.
***
School-based gifted education (SBGE) programmes are offered in 7 IP schools. The SBGE programmes are designed and implemented by the schools with specialist advice from the Ministry of Education.
***
To Old Boy and your Prata Kakis
Would like to discuss this motion
"To propose Victoria Model(Common VJC-VS 6 Year VIP, a Model 2 and School-based gifted education (SBGE) programme, as an alternative proposal."
at your prata breakfast ?
To Old Boy and your Prata Kakis
Would you like to discuss this motion:
“To propose the Victoria Model(Common VJC-VS 6 Year VIP), a Model 2 and School-based gifted education (SBGE) programme, as an alternative proposal”
at your prata breakfast ?
The Victoria Model is the one that I proposed about 2 weeks back. I think it's a win-win for both VS and VJC and VERY WORKABLE. In summary:
VJC – admit girls from Sec 1 thru JC2 (VJC agenda's met)
VS – Admit boys Sec 1-4. JC 1-2, completed at VJC
Implication – the PSLE T Score cut off will be much higher compared to current. In the process, the academic standard of VS will be lifted, BUT still maintaining her tradition of excellence in sports, cultural group and Victorian spirit. This is the difference.
The real "competitor" in the East will really then be Dunman High. But then each school has it's own strength. Dunman high (like Nanyang) obviously has a high Chinese environment and I think the MOE (read government), will want it keep it that way to groom a group of "chinese intellect" to engage China as the power house. This is an open agenda which is well understood and publicised.
By and large, parents will choose either VS/VJC or Dunman High/JC according to what they think is best in terms of environment, culture etc. We will complete about, my guess, for 50% of the East top tier. In it's ok. Live and let live, co-existence.
The real school that will be concern is Anglican, TJC and possibly TKGS..
Comments…comments??
My concern is : will OVA be willing or can, take a separate Victoria Model to MOE as an alternative?. I am trying to be understanding here in not putting the OVA Chairman, Vernon and VS Principal in a spot. They both have a seat in the VEC which mooted and supported the VJC proposal. It will be counter productive now for OVA to propose?
How should we go about?
Shall we call it "concerned victorian"?
The last thing we want is to be seen as a alternative OVA. That will further put OVA in a very negative and weak position. Unless OVA is willing to stand up and say "we are representing the majority voices of Victorian, as evident by the largely majority dissenting voices to VJC proposal"??
I don't have the full answer but hope my contribution can help.
Could someone help me to post this to Facebook?
The group can call itself a voluntary taskforce, separate from OVA.
"The Victoria Taskforce"
or
"The Victoria Model(Common VJC-VS 6 Year VIP)TaskForce"
or
some other variations.
Ministry of Education will not consider a proposal by an unofficial group.
Then, are we stuck?
"Ministry of Education will not consider a proposal by an unofficial group."
By the same logic, Ministry of Education will not consider a petition by an unofficial group ?
Victoria United, I dont understand your question. Are you agreeing with eric or asking another question? Maybe I miss it somewhere?
What I mean is that if the MOE does not consider a proposal by an "unofficial" group then by the same logic, the MOE will also not consider a petition by an ""unofficial" group". Then there is also no point sending the Facebook petition to MOE.
I think there is nothing to lose by submitting an alternative proposal. I will not speculate on how the MOE officials work.
The alternative proposal can be submitted to all relevant parties simultaneoulsy for consideration:
1. MOE
2. VEC/VAC
3. VJC
4. VS
5. OVA
Recall:
Late Dr Ong on How Victoria School got its Siglap site:
"I thought that would be impossible. It is a prime site, already zoned for condominium development."
Late Dr Ong on How Victoria Junior College was Established:
"It was a most difficult task. Many, including the then VS principal, said that it could not be done and that Victoria Junior College would remain a pipe dream."
I will quote the Adidas advertisement:
Impossible is Nothing.
If you take a look at the 2009 PSC Scholars, you will get an idea where the Victoria family stand.
2009 PSC Scholars http://www.pscscholarships.gov.sg/NR/rdonlyres/CF…
http://www.pscscholarships.gov.sg
Using 2009 PSC scholars as a gauge (granted there will be some top students who will not want to work in the civil service but assuming roughly the same percentage in each JC), put yourself in the shoe of VJC's principal. What would you do ? Wouldn't you try to do something to increase the number of scholars from VJC ? He is just doing his job. So the guys at Facebook should stop bashing him.
2009 PSC Scholars http://www.pscscholarships.gov.sg/NR/rdonlyres/CF…
http://www.pscscholarships.gov.sg
Quote posted by BengBeng on Facebook
"To go or not to go?
I'm drifting away slowly from my dreams to go to VJC
Mr Maran took some time to come into our class just now
"Prove the doubters wrong"
"Leave a legacy behind"
"Don't crawl to them, make them crawl to you"
"Why settle for the moon when you can reach the stars?"
He didn't mention the word 'VJC', but it couldn't be more obvious
The last quote, what he meant was why settle for VJC when you can aim for RJC?
The point isn't to promote RJC, it's to demote VJC
He doesn't want us to go to VJC, that's for sure,
And the only way to convince us not to go there is to convince us that there is a higher ground than VJC
Maybe I should aim for the stars
Or maybe I should stick to the moon
Or maybe I should aim for the sky
Or just that tip of that tall tree outside my house
Man, I'm seriously damn confused right now
VS student http://afidasvs.blogspot.com/"
If VJC only wants the best "o" levels students and thinks that the 2 affiliation points for VS students are a drag, then vice versa, it is only fair that the best VS students think that they should apply to tbe best JC or the JC with the best programme for them or the Jc that gives them the highest chance to get a scholarship.
Dreams are usually painted in the colours of the rainbow, reality is often in black, white or grey,.
In the top universities in the US and UK, there is a JC whose brand name resonates among their professors.
Why ?
"For others came before and went,
And carried to the world, ___’s fame"
Unfortunately it is not V…
The Top 1% in terms of ability (GEP) Primary School Leavers: 550
Boys: 330 (about 60%, prefer to work in nice numbers)
Girls: 220 (about 40%)
Where they go:
RI: about 180 boys
HCI: about 90 boys
NUS High, others: about 60 boys
Unless VS and VJC come together and offer a common 6 year VIP (SBGE), the top 1% from Tao Nan's, St Hilda's GEP classes will continue to opt to go to RI or HCI.
VS secondary school GEP programme was aborted as the primary GEP students opted to go to IP schools.
Note: The GEP screening test is an ability test. The P6 PSLE is an achievement test.
Reply to 1971 Old Boy,
Pardon me 1971 Old Boy, in a rare moment (I hope), I was being sarcastic and rhetorical.
One thing (not the writer) I hate most is defeatism.
"Victoria United, I dont understand your question. Are you agreeing with eric or asking another question? Maybe I miss it somewhere?"
"One thing I hate most is defeatism."
Maybe that is the Victorian Spirit.
For a lighter moment, after writing all the heavy stuff, you may want to listen to this song.
Reunited
admist all this, congratulations are in order for the Old VS Boy Mr Lim Chap Huat who has been bestowed the state honour of Public Service Star (see today's ST). He is really one old Victorian who has done much by the generosity of his time and money to the school and community. Nil Sine Labore!
I am not sure if the petition will go through. But a proposal will be followed by implementation, while a petition, if successful, means not doing anything, something much easier.
Victorians of certain stature in society may need to lead this.
Victoria Reunited, no worries. We want the best for the family.I agree and also hate defeatism. It's just I am not sure on what ground is eric saying that unofficial representation will not be accepted. Whether it's petition or proposal (an dby whatever definition), we should do whatever it takes ie. get MOE to ask VJC to modify VJC's proposal taking into account the strong logical sentiments.
What is important is: we have an alternative Victoria Model proposal which is workable, thus preserving the unity.
My question is still the same:
With the facebook or Victoria Model, who is going to "corporately" present this to MOE/VEC/VS/VJC etc..? I doubt OVA is an a position to do so for reasons already explained.
So should we do it under another group maybe "Concerned Victoria Family"?
I have a son taking his "O" Levels this year. He is really "mugging" and of course his preferred choice is VJC. I have a good confidence that he will do well and surpass his older brother (ex VS and VJC).
He was of course concern about the whole fiasco. I told him, reach for the stars in the galaxy and if you can go RJC or HC, so be it. But his heart is still with VJC. That's the VICTORIAN Spirit! So I agree with Mr. Maran and will tell him so the next time I meet him.
His older brother is one of those who flourished late during Sec 4 and did extremely well in the final "O" and straight As for "A" Level. He did VS and VJC proud. He was singled out by the then VJC Principal, Mrs Chan (no relation to Mr Chan) to speak to the VS "O" Level boys and encourage them to work hard towards VJC.
Anyone out there know whether the current VJC Principal has done so?
This older brother also commented that VJC is very academic centric and in the drilling of the students, whereas the RJC and HC is taking a very different approach in preparing the students for the long life journey ahead. He is seeing this very evidently comparatively now that he is in NUS, doing his Double Honours.
So yes, "there are other schools we know". There is life after VJC (if that's what VJC chose to go on it's own). VS, we can be something more!
Guys and girls, remember this Sunday 30 August "Prata Session" @VS Canteen, time 9-11am.
Spread the word. Let's get together and put a definite plan of counter proposal/petition (whatever you call it) to gain visiblity and initiate a re-think on VJC's proposal.
If someone know any press (ex VS/VJC preferred), please inform and invite them as well. Would be great to have some continued publicity and pressure on the decision makers.
The PSC looks beyond academic achievements.
That so many 2009 PSC scholars are from the Raffles family show how highly regarded the Raffles Programme is to the PSC.
2009 PSC Scholars http://www.pscscholarships.gov.sg/NR/rdonlyres/CF…
http://www.pscscholarships.gov.sg
***
Mrs Chan Khah Gek (2002 – 2006)
2002 – Appointment of Mrs Chan Khah Gek as principal.
2006 – Mrs Chan Khah Gek took on her new appointment at MOE.
***
Mr Chan Poh Meng (2007 – 2011(?))
2007 – Mr Chan Poh Meng became the third principal of VJC.
***
http://www.vjc.moe.edu.sg/02_history.shtml
***
New Principal (2012 – 2016) ?
***
Assuming a 5-year appointment period, the current principal of VJC, Mr Chan Poh Meng, should have only about 2 years left until 2011 in VJC.
A new principal may then take over in 2012.
Note: This is thinking aloud on whether there will be a change of principals f VJC and the implications. It is not meant to be a personal attack on the principal.
The real stakeholder for VS and VJC (Victoria Family) should rest with the Old Boys/Girls and not the Principals (with due respect). I mentioned this more than a year ago. "Principals come and go and this is part of MOE's rotation/promotion. But after decisions have been taken affecting the future of both institutions, the questions is: Are they around to see it through, for good or for bad?
Who picks up the pieces? OVA and fellow victorians will still be around to rally her alma mater.
The Principals will do whatever it takes while they are still in school and I must add, to the best of their ability. Unfortunately, some of the decisions will be short term and short sighted. I am not bashing them cos it's part of the civil servant responsibility.
The point is major decision should not be the responsibilty of the principal alone without due and logical dialogue with the stakeholders. In the case of VJC's proposal, there was NO dialogue, after he mpromised there will be (I was there when he gave the assurance)..They may be the professional in the education field but that does not mean there is no need for dialogue.
I must make this clear, I am not blashing the principals.
Btw, can we have Principals who are Victorian? I can't believe there are none available.
OK, 1971 Old Boy, the group can up a comprehensive alternative proposal to address the major issues.
1. VJC and VS colloborate and run a common VJC-VS 6 year VIP (SBGE). The VJC name is in front (VJC-VS) to attract the attention of the parents and students.
2. VJC takes in only girls for Sec 1 classes and the supplementary Sec 3 intake (Raffles schools have a supplementary Sec 3 intake for local students from other schools and foreign scholars).
3.. VS takes in only boys for Sec 1 classes and the supplementary Sec 3 intake.
4. All the VS boys who meet the minimum requirements to be promoted to year 5 will move to the VJC campus for year 5 to join the VJC girls who meet the same minimum requirements.
5. VJC will continue to take in both girls and boys from other schools with excellent "O" levels in the year 5 supplementary intake.
6. A principal who is an old Victorian to take over from the current principal of VJC when he leaves in 2011 to implement the proposal.
7. A principal who is an old Victorian to take over from the current principal of VS when his term expires.
8. The VEC/VAC to appoint a VJC-VS VIP Executive Commitee to work with MOE to design, implement and supervise the programme.
9. School Song
Replace “Victoria thy sons are we” with “Victoria thy scions are we,”
Meaning of scion: (literary) a young member of a rich and famous family. Think of a rich and famous family as a “rich in tradition” and famous school. I don't think "scions" is too pompous a word to use now as VS has 133 years and VJC has 25 years of excellence and prominence.
10. An alternative site in the longer term.
The proposal will go through an approval process which will take some time. When approved and implemented it will be in at least 2 – 3 years time.
Run it for a few years and 10 years down the road, say 2020, there may be a need to move both VJC and VS to a combined bigger and better site.
Fully agree with the well thought out suggestion, including implementation and principals change. There is only one objection though. School song – no need to change from "sons" to "scions". "Son" is generic, just like mother earth and we address the school and org as "she or her". Remember we change once to accomodate VJC from Victoria School to VICTORIA. Small issue.
Can we propose this for discussion during prata session instead of talking about the "same old thing"?
Victoria reunited, can I suggest you post your comments in the facebook as well to ensure everybody understand? Thanks
Reply to 1971 Old Boy
If you don't mind, please post the 10 points summarised proposal in Facebook together with your comments.
By the way, my pen name here is Victoria Reunite – a call to reunite. I haven't added a "d" yet, still waiting for the day when both VJC and VS are reunited.
Thank you very much.
Victoria Reunite, done, up on "The Wall" f Facebook
Shouldn't we invite the VEC and OVA guys to be around for Prata Sunday? This way, we can have a healthy dialogue and understand the thoughts behind the whole saga. Unfortunately, many of us are assuming certain things which may not be accurate. Also, this will be a perfect platform for DIALOGUE, which is very lacking..
Guys??
A Million Dollar VJC-VS VIP Fund
In case, the question of funding arises, a VJC-VS VIP fund raising campaign can be launched to raise $1m.
Take the 2,000 members on Facebook and multiply by an average of $500 and you get a million dollars.
Ask the government for $1 for $1 funding and you get $2million to launch the programme with a million dollar each for VJC and VS.
The 6 year VJC-VS VIP in the Victoria family of schools is
non-specialist (NUSHS),
non-SAP school with a predominantly Chinese enclave (HCI, NGHS, DHS)
non-mission school (ACS (I))
and would therefore have a more multi-racial appeal like the Raffles schools.
There should be space for the Victoria schools to offer such a programme to give those who prefer a multi-racial and non-mission school like the Raffles schools.
VS will be back to an alternative to RI like in the old days.
"School-based gifted education (SBGE) programmes are offered in 7 IP schools.
The schools that offer SBGE are
Mission School
Anglo-Chinese School (Independent) [ACS(I)],
SAP Schools
Hwa Chong Institution [HCI],
Nanyang Girls’ High School [NYGH],
Dunman High School [DHS],
Specialist School
NUS High School of Mathematics and Science [NUSHS],
Raffles Girls᾿ School (Secondary) [RGS(S)] and Raffles Institution [RI]."
http://www.moe.edu.sg/education/programmes/gifted…
Why MOE should approve the 6 year VJC-VS VIP (SBGE)
There should be space for the Victoria schools to offer such a programme to give those who prefer a multi-racial, non-SAP and non-mission school, offering a more broad based non-specialist programme in a single sex secondary school environment like the Raffles family of schools, an alternative.
"Friday, August 28, 2009
The Least Surprising Correlation of All Time
The NY Times Economix blog offers us the above graph, showing that kids from higher income families get higher average SAT scores.
Of course! But so what? This fact tells us nothing about the causal impact of income on test scores. (Economix does not advance a causal interpretation, but nor does it warn readers against it.)
This graph is a good example of omitted variable bias, a statistical issue discussed in Chapter 2 of my favorite textbook. The key omitted variable here is parents' IQ. Smart parents make more money and pass those good genes on to their offspring.
Suppose we were to graph average SAT scores by the number of bathrooms a student has in his or her family home. That curve would also likely slope upward. (After all, people with more money buy larger homes with more bathrooms.) But it would be a mistake to conclude that installing an extra toilet raises yours kids' SAT scores.
It would be interesting to see the above graph reproduced for adopted children only. I bet that the curve would be a lot flatter."
http://gregmankiw.blogspot.com/
Hi, Any outcome at the prata session?
We have a good and workable idea. I think it's up to the OVA to represent the voices in a well thought out proposal to MOE
Hello All, something interesting cam up during the Prata session. It concerns the "authority" of the current VEC/VAC, specifically in submitting a proposal to MOE re VJC.
The Advisory Council was started by MOE as a trial in 7 schools. The objective was very clear ie. to serve as a advisor. It has NOT authority to set or worst still "to propose" any policy or interfere in the day to day running of the school. Ever since, it has been abandon. Whoever for starnge reason only VEC/VAC remains and take the additional "unauthorised" step to propose and therefore the VJC 6 years program to MOE.
Fundamentally, this is wrong as the VEC/VAC has overstep her authority.
Shouldn't we address this? If we can do so, then we, VOA, can write to MOE to disregard the proposal? I further propose we call for a EAGM to discuss and submit or move to "restructure" the VEC/VAC?
I know I may not have the full info here. Perhaps, someone who is familiar with the "inner workings" can comment?
After which, I strongly propose we move along and follow through. I am concern the current objection to VJC's proposal is not being followed through with the people that matters most ie. MOE, Education Minister, PM and all stakeholders? Who is taking the representative charge now? Shouldn't it be OVA? But I am not seeing any affirmative counter proposal officially…
Comments??
this is what VS is all about …… a great teacher, great students….Nil Sine Labore!
http://mrsiow.blogspot.com/2009/09/03092009028-sh…
Perhaps someone in the OVA Council/OVA can take the lead in the alternative proposal? Need not be under the name of OVA. Lim Chap Huat or someone prominent enough?
Chan Poh Meng:
"We believe that there are significant educational advantages in having an uninterrupted six-year programme for the students to engage in a wider range of learning experiences for holistic development."
Straits Times dated 8 Sep 2009 page B3.
Open comment for Mr Chan Poh Meng:
This model will provide the uninterrupted six-year programme for the students to engage in a wider range of learning experiences for holistic development:
1. VJC and VS collaborate and run a common VJC-VS 6 year VIP (SBGE).
2. The VEC/VAC to appoint a VJC-VS VIP Executive Commitee to work with MOE to design, implement and supervise the programme.
3. VJC takes in only girls and VS takes in only boys for year 1 to year 4.
4. All the VS boys who meet the minimum requirements to be promoted to year 5 will move to the VJC campus for year 5 to join the VJC girls who meet the same minimum requirements.
I support Victoria Reunite's proposal and I think it's workable..
Maybe, the two Victorias could merge into one and form one new entity called The Victoria Institution catering to locals and foreign students. The Institution could operate at a bigger premises offering the IP or even IB Diploma. Hence, the name Victoria will even emerge stronger in future.
I don't think anyone will object to merger in the Raffles or Hwa Chong model.
Other names can be considered but not Victoria Institution as there is a Victoria Institution in Malaysia and universities overseas and employers may be confused. No good for branding.
I have one very simple solution to this "proton" saga (cutting ties)…. vs should resume their pre-university intakes, going back to attracting the pretty and smart for afar like we used to during my days in the 1960s…. and vjc can or should change its name to maybe marine parade jc or east coast jc, and then do whatever they like….. why should we allow vjc to ride on our VICTORIAN brand name, attacting the brightest in the east……… i say, let it be, why fight it?since the mind is already there…. just make sure that they don't use the branded name of ours…. the way they prostitute themselves to compete with vs, for some smart kids, a name like Telok Kurau Lorong J-C, may suit them just fine……
Master Plan 2008 http://www.ura.gov.sg/mp08/map.jsf?goToRegion=SIN…
(Search:
Type in 2 in box for Block/House Number
Type in Siglap Link in box for Street Name)
The late Dr Ong:
"I thought that would be impossible. It is a prime site, already zoned for condominium development.
It took no less than the approval of two ministers to secure the site for us at Siglap."
If you look at the Master Plan 2008, there is a plot of land slightly smaller than the current VS site between VS and the ECP also zoned for condominium development (plot ratio 3.5).
It seemed that VS only got about 60% of that plot of land.
Anyone want to help VS make a go for the remaining 40% ?
https://www.ova.org.sg/wp-content/uploads/2009/02…
EXCERPT OF VJC PRINCIPAL’S THANK YOU SPEECH @ OVA GALA
DINNER (SUNDAY, 8 MAR 2009 AT RITZ CARLTON
BALLROOM)
"On behalf of the staff and students, I wish to thank the OVA for the support you have given to the school since its beginning in 1984. Over the years, the OVA has put in place various initiatives to support the
efforts of the school – scholarships for students to recognize both academic and non academic excellence, awards for good teachers who remain loyal and dedicated to their profession, and special events like
the Victorians Day. Early last year, when Vernon and his council members learned that VJC is celebrating her 25th anniversary this year, they immediately assured me that they would raise funds for the schools.
Tonight’s Gala Dinner is a solid quality outcome that would not have been possible if not for the commitment of the OVA and its members to
the Victorian Family.
With support from stakeholders like the OVA, together with the estimated 20, 000 VJC graduates out there; I am certain that VJC will continue to scale greater heights.
Tonight, once again, I sense the high energies that reside in Victorians.
With your unwavering commitment to the Victorian Family, how could we not excel?"
This sppech was made during happier times not too long ago in Mar 2009. How much things have changed in just six months.
VJC's IP plan: Upset alumni write to minister
By Amelia Tan
http://a1preview.asia1.com.sg:90/vgn-ext-templati…
Reply to Victoria Reunite and Independent View:
Although I do not like a name change to Victoria Academy or Victoria Institution initially, I think this is of secondary importance. We are far away from this. Now it is a matter of whether MOE is accepting VJC's proposal.
MOE used to announce IP plans for other schools/JCs in December in the past (from MOE website – MOE announcements), I think the decision will probably be made in Oct or Nov.
Reply to Old Boy
I think progress has been made.
1. The OVA has taken the matter to the MOE.
VJC’s IP plan: Upset alumni write to minister
By Amelia Tan
http://a1preview.asia1.com.sg:90/vgn-ext-templati…
2. The OVA has written an open letter to the VEC/VAC
https://www.ova.org.sg/2009/09/open-letter-to-vec…
Thanks for the info, Victoria Reunite. In the meantime, I think we can continue to support this in our own little ways.
Those who have not signed the petition should consider doing so, and pass the message to your schoolmates and friends: http://vs.jonaize.com/petition.php
In the meantime, what more can be done?
It makes my blood boil when I saw the news that despicable VJC plans to enrol secondary one students! What has become of our society that we allow such dishonorable act to even see the day of light. MOE should immediately step in to stop VJC and change it's thieving principal. As a old boy of VS, I am totally against VJC's proposed plan to enrol secondary one students. If VJC despicably insist on doing so, it should have the integrity not to use the Victoria brand as it belongs totally to VS.
1. Get more prominent Victorians to speak up on this issue.
2. Get those who know the VEC members to talk to them as friends. It could be a very group who sway the rest.
1. Get more prominent Victorians to speak up on this issue.
2. Get those who know the VEC members to talk to them as friends. It could be a very small group who sway the rest.
Impact
—————————————————-
Monday, August 24, 2009
♥ 9:23 PM
To go or not to go?
I’m drifting away slowly from my dreams to go to VJC
Mr Maran took some time to come into our class just now
“Prove the doubters wrong”
“Leave a legacy behind”
“Don’t crawl to them, make them crawl to you”
“Why settle for the moon when you can reach the stars?”
He didn’t mention the word ‘VJC’, but it couldn’t be more obvious
The last quote, what he meant was why settle for VJC when you can aim for RJC?
The point isn’t to promote RJC, it’s to demote VJC
He doesn’t want us to go to VJC, that’s for sure,
And the only way to convince us not to go there is to convince us that there is a higher ground than VJC
Maybe I should aim for the stars
Or maybe I should stick to the moon
Or maybe I should aim for the sky
Or just that tip of that tall tree outside my house
Man, I’m seriously damn confused right now
VS student
http://afidasvs.blogspot.com/
"In the meantime, what more can be done?"
VJC has submitted its proposal to extend its IP down by two years.
OVA has submitted its counter proposals for collaboration/mereger between VJC and VS.
VS has been silent, at least in public.
Can or should VS do something ?
“In the meantime, what more can be done?”
Hope for the best and prepare for the worst.
What happens if MOE accepts VJC's current proposal and there is no agreement with VJC ?
Work on a BATNA now
B: Best
A: Alternative
T: To
N: No
A: Agreement
OVA can propose to VS to propose to run two programmes
1. 6 year IP or IB for higher ability students
2. 4 year "O" levels for the rest
like ACS (I).
Ask the government for the empty site next to VS and expand VS.
Master Plan 2008 http://www.ura.gov.sg/mp08/map.jsf?goToRegion=SIN…
(Search:
Type in 2 in box for Block/House Number
Type in Siglap Link in box for Street Name)
just wondering what impact this ongoing debate have on the present students of VS. Hope that they are not troubled by this and concentrate on their studies as the year end examinations are near. We must congratulate the principal, teachers and students for the outstanding CCA achievements this year (as gleaned from the sch website and media reports).
Yesterday, I met a Sec 4 VS boy working hard for the O levels. When I asked him which JC he wants to go, he unhesitantly said "VJC"> That's the spirit and aspiration of very abled VS boys.. However, he made a strange remark, "is it true that VS boys have no 2points advantage, with the on-going spat with VJC?. It's definitely sadly affecting them and I hope the teacher, OVA and principal will come out strongly to correct the misinformation..
Heartiest congratulations to the principal, teachers and students of Victoria School for having won the MOE 2009 School Distinction Award which recognises high achieving school with exemplary school processes an practices, and also for once again achieving the Band I status.
http://www.moe.gov.sg/media/press/2009/09/recogni…
Stand up for Victoria
If VJC really goes on its own way, then the Victoria family can work along the line of “cooptition”
Definition of “cooptition”: “Cooperative competition”
The Victoria family can run 3 programmes:
VS Original (4 Year “O” levels)
VS IB (6 Year IB)
VJC VIP (6 Year VIP)
***
“VS Original”: 4 Year “O” Levels
(PSLE T-Score of below 250 or those who have PSLE T-Score of above 250 but prefer “O” level route)
Year 2 – students who meet the requirements may apply to VS IB or VJC VIP for year 3
Year 4 – students who meet the requirements may apply to VS IB or VJC VIP for year 5
Students from the VS IB programme or VJC IP may apply to switch to “VS Original” during the first 3 years to prepare for the “O” levels either because they do not like or cannot cope with the IB programme or IP.
***
VS IB
VS implement an IB programme for students with PSLE T-Score of 250 and above.
Supplementary intake in year 3 and year 5 for students from “VS Original” and other schools.
Students may apply to switch to “VS Original” to do the “O” levels.
***
VJC VIP
VJC implement its 6 year VIP.
“VS Original” students may apply to join VJC VIP on merits.
***
Victoria School of Economics
Victoria School of Defence
***
Victoria School of Economics
VS may also work with a university to develop a Humanities programme.
There is a specialist IP offered by NUS High in Maths and Science.
For example, VS can propose to work with say London School of Economics to do a specialist programme on economics and social sciences.
***
VS can consider a Military Academy as the school has a tradition of producing Generals in the Singapore Armed Forces
***
"The next step in SJI's renaissance, Dr Koh (the principal) said, is to introduce the integrated programme, a seamless programme that allows students to bypass the O levels. The school has submitted an application to do this, and MOE is now reviewing it. Dr Koh said getting the go-ahead would mean SJI would would be able to retain its best students, putting it in the top league here." (Straits Times, 11 Sep 09)
Whither goes VS?
VS can propose to introduce
One IP programme
1. 6 year IP or IB for higher ability students with PSLE T-Score of 250 and above
or
two programmes
1. 6 year IP or IB for higher ability students with PSLE T-Score of 250 and above
AND
2. 4 year “O” levels for the rest
(if VS and OVA do not want to exclude those who do have PSLE T-Score of below 250)
This can be VS' BATNA (Best Alternative to No Agreement with VJC)
This may be the path that VS can take, catering for students who want to enrol in the IP and those who do not wish to do so or may not meet the cut off points and yet both want the kind of environment and ethos that VS provides. The student proportion can be 50:50 or thereabout for IP and non-IP, and students, after secondary two, can be upgraded to IP if they qualify and wish to and those who want to opt for a change to the non-IP path. Perhaps this may the way forward and allow VJC to go on its own way.
When VJC implemented its 4 year IP, a "feeder" school in the East was said to have reacted by implementing its own 6 year IP as instead of its top graduating "O" levels students joining VJC, its year 2 students started to apply to join VJC VIP in year 3.
VS did not react as it probably viewed sending its top Sec 2 boys to VJC as part of moving up in the Victoria family. With hindsight, maybe VS should have reacted then.
Now if VJC is allowed to "extend" its VIP to 6 years, should VS be restrained from reacting just because VJC is part of the family ?
Another JC in the East will probably follow suit by extending its IP to 6 years.
Should the hands of VS be tied ?
Should VS not react by implementing its own IP or IB ?
The Coopetition Model
(Will use the term coopetition instead of cooptition)
“Losing and winning are two extremes by which businesses are often measured. Brandenburger (Harvard Business Sch.) and Nalebuff (Yale Sch. of Management) argue that most businesses and their transactions lie somewhere between the two poles. Their liberating message is that your competitor does not have to fail for you to win. Conversely, you don’t have to fail either. Your failure, in fact, can hurt your competitor. It is better, the authors assert, to have both cooperation and competition.”
Co-Opetition : A Revolution Mindset That Combines Competition and Cooperation : The Game Theory Strategy That’s Changing the Game of Business (Paperback)
by Adam M. Brandenburger (Author), Barry J. Nalebuff
Barry J. Nalebuff (Author)
http://www.amazon.com/Co-Opetition-Revolution-Com…
It is already "Coopetition".
On relection, when VJC implemented its 4 year IP, it had already changed the landscape from collaboration to coopetition by competing away VS top Sec 2 boys to apply to join its VIP from year 3, resulting in a hollowing out of VS Sec 3 cohort.
Lopsided coopetition
There is more cooperation from VS playing the feeder school role to VJC and a hollowing out of its Sec 3 cohort.
VJC IP at year 5 is cooperation with VS but VJC IP at year 3 is competition with VS for Sec 3 students.
The imbalance has to be corrected.
VS has to introduce a programme to keep its Sec 3 boys and also to compete for Sec 1 boys not only against VJC but other JCs and IP schools.
In response to this suggestion
Master Plan 2008
http://www.ura.gov.sg/mp08/map.jsf?goToRegion=SIN#
(Search:
Type in 2 in box for Block/House Number
Type in Siglap Link in box for Street Name)
Firstly, i do not fully understand which plot of land is so called “empty”
Laguna Park is a private housing property, so as Mandarin Garden.
In addition, the patch of so called barren ground behind VS soccer pitch is unavailable for usage as it is reserved for further development.
We should be grateful for this plot of land allocated to us, as it is on the expanse of a Bus Terminal and many services get rerouted.
Therefore, we should be contended and remain as status quo.
However, it does not mean we should give up the fight for objecting the 6 years IP.
In my opinion, the IB scheme seems the most applicable, but for VS to adopt it we need more teachers, more resources to complete the hardware part of IB. This is to allow all VS students to be fair in competing with ACS(I).
Regards
***
"We should be grateful for this plot of land allocated to us, as it is on the expanse of a Bus Terminal and many services get rerouted.
Therefore, we should be contended and remain as status quo."
Fact:
The late Dr Ong:
“I thought that would be impossible. It is a prime site, already zoned for condominium development."
The site where the bus terminal once stood was already rezoned for residential use before VS asked for it.
***
"In addition, the patch of so called barren ground behind VS soccer pitch is unavailable for usage as it is reserved for further development."
I have written in an earlier post that
"If you look at the Master Plan 2008, there is a plot of land slightly smaller than the current VS site between VS and the ECP also zoned for condominium development (plot ratio 3.5)."
VS got its present site which was also zoned for residential use.
"but for VS to adopt it we need more teachers, more resources to complete the hardware part of IB."
The additional land is more "hardware".
Satellite view of site on streetdirectory.com
http://www.streetdirectory.com/asia_travel/gps/gp…
"“If you look at the Master Plan 2008, there is a plot of land slightly smaller than the current VS site between VS and the ECP also zoned for condominium development (plot ratio 3.5).”
"Master Plan 2008
http://www.ura.gov.sg/mp08/map.jsf?goToRegion=SIN…
(Search:
Type in 2 in box for Block/House Number
Type in Siglap Link in box for Street Name)"
***
Map View on streetdirectory.com
http://www.streetdirectory.com/asia_travel/travel…
***
Satellite View on streetdirectory.com http://www.streetdirectory.com/asia_travel/gps/gp…
***
View on Master Plan 2008
“Master Plan 2008
http://www.ura.gov.sg/mp08/map.jsf?goToRegion=SIN…
(Search:
Type in 2 in box for Block/House Number
Type in Siglap Link in box for Street Name)”
***
***
ST Forum
15 Sep 2009
EXPANDING IP PROGRAMMES
Beware of breeding elitism
“The Education Ministry must be sensitive and extremely careful in implementing more IPs for JCs or any other school as it may breed a culture of elitism.”
David Goh
http://www.straitstimes.com/ST%2BForum/Story/STIStory_429786.html
***
Extending the secondary GEP for the top 1 % to the top 5% and now to the top 10% in the form of IP makes it less “elitist” because it now caters to a larger group of (about 5,500 students) rather than just a select few (about 550 students).
More IPs for JCs and schools do not breed a culture of elitism. In fact it does the reverse by extending it to more students.
When more JCs and schools implement IPs, it becomes less elitist by definition.
Definition of elitist
elitist adjective
/ɪˈliː.tɪst/ adj mainly disapproving
“organized for the good of a few people who have special interests or abilities”
http://dictionary.cambridge.org/define.asp?key=25211&dict=CALD
***
Okay. I get your point. Nevertheless, in my opinion, i felt that we should be able to accommodate the 6 years IP , A level course or IB, without the need for campus expansion. As VS median mark is 251, it means that only 50 % of a year cohort is eligible for the IP, and not all will like to stay. Therefore, if for one cohort we need 9 classes, we should at most need 5 classes more for one year and 10 classes for two year. Given that IP will be most likely lecture-tutorial system, JC1/JC2 can share the classrooms or some special rooms, such as learning studios, could be used also.
This will reap some benefits for us, as if there is a reconstruction, we may not be in the time for a direct competition with VJC for the IP program.
The BATNA (Best Alternative To No Agreement) is
VS conducts two programmes:
VS Original (4 Year “O” levels)
VS IB
***
“VS Original”: 4 Year “O” Levels
(PSLE T-Score of below 250 or those who have PSLE T-Score of above 250 but prefer “O” level route)
***
"VS IB"
VS implement an IB programme for students with PSLE T-Score of 250 and above.
***
This is a more "inclusive" (a popular word these days) so as not to exclude those with PSLE score of between 245 to 249.
There may be OVA members who are worried that their children may not be able to go to VS if they don't qualify for IB. This will alleviate their fears.
***
If VS runs two programmes it may need additional space in the not too distant future. So ask for the land first.
Ask and you may be given.
The site between VS and the ECP.
***
Map View on streetdirectory.com
http://www.streetdirectory.com/asia_travel/travel…
***
Satellite View on streetdirectory.com http://www.streetdirectory.com/asia_travel/gps/gp…
***
View on Master Plan 2008
“Master Plan 2008
http://www.ura.gov.sg/mp08/map.jsf?goToRegion=SIN…
(Search:
Type in 2 in box for Block/House Number
Type in Siglap Link in box for Street Name)”
***
but remember that there is heavy traffic at ECP which may cause lesson to be conducted in a less conducive manner, but try to haggle for a A/C classroom
VJ is also next to the ECP
VJC: Map View on streetdirectory.com http://www.streetdirectory.com/asia_travel/travel…
VJC: Satellite View on streetdirectory.com http://www.streetdirectory.com/asia_travel/gps/gp…
VJC: View on Master Plan 2008
“Master Plan 2008 http://www.ura.gov.sg/mp08/map.jsf?goToRegion=SIN…
(Search:
Type in 20 in box for Block/House Number
Type in Marine Vista in box for Street Name)”
***
I just wonder if all the ideas will be presented in a proper format to the school authorities.
No doubt there are some good ideas, whether implementable or not is another thing.
Shouldn't the more important issue (VJC's proposal) be resolved first?
Reply to Old Boy
"Shouldn’t the more important issue (VJC’s proposal) be resolved first?"
Reread how we get to BATNA
***
By Old Boy, September 9, 2009 @ 16:31
In the meantime, what more can be done?
***
By Victoria Reunite, September 10, 2009 @ 10:48
“In the meantime, what more can be done?”
Hope for the best and prepare for the worst.
What happens if MOE accepts VJC’s current proposal and there is no agreement with VJC ?
Work on a BATNA now
***
By Victoria Reunite, September 15, 2009 @ 23:58
The BATNA (Best Alternative To No Agreement) is
VS conducts two programmes:
VS Original (4 Year “O” levels)
VS IB
***
Another possible solution is that, since Victoria is an established name producing top Leaders, VS should scrap the "O" levels and to offer IB Diploma and maintain it's "Old Boys Status". At the same time, VJC could recruit both boys and girls for IP. Hence, it is a win-win situation for both entities. Parents and students will have a clearer understanding of the chosen path – Choose VS – get IB Diploma; choose VJC – get the "A" level. Hence, by VS offering IB Diploma, students will have two choice, either ACS(I) or VS.
"VS should scrap the “O” levels"
This may not go well with some old boys who want their sons to be in VS but not sure that they can achieve PSLE T-Score of 250 and above. These boys could also be late achievers in secondary school.
***
There may be OVA members who are worried that their children may not be able to go to VS if they don’t qualify for IB.
***
Not sure on what basis MOE will approve VS IB. VS is not an independent school. It cannot go ahead to do something without MOE's approval. IS IB 4-yr? If it is 6-yr, will the last 2 yrs be co-ed? Boys may not want a 6-yr single-sex education.
Even if VJC get approval from MOE, VS and VJC can still merge next year, the option 1 counter-proposal by OVA and similar proposal by Victoria Reunite – have the IP boys in VS and IP girls in VJC when IP start in 2011 (assuming it is approved). I rather every one work on this.
Build them a Golden Bridge
(from "Getting Past No" by William Ury)
***
"I rather every one work on this."
Someone has to get "everyone"
1. VEC/VAC
2. OVA
3. VJ Principal
4. VS Principal
to work on this.
Build them a golden bridge to come to the negotiation table.
***
Victoria Reunite,
Please see my last 2 posts under: "In the News ~ VJC’s IP plan: Upset alumni write to minister"
Reply to Old Boy
Don’t worry old boy. The people there in Facebook are playing their role and the people here on the OVA blog are playing our role.
One can also see that OVA is playing its role.
Let us wait for things to play out.
Based on the above feedback, i think the best option for all parties is that VS, continue to offer "O" levels with the boys maintaining the single sex status. Ex-VS boys could still send their sons to VS without any issue. VJC, moving forward, could offer IP as a mixed school. The entry point could to both schools could be – PSLE score 240 and above for VS; 250 and above for VJC.
Hence, it could win-win situation for all parties. At end of the day, what is achieved is the choice parents and students want. Those who want their son to continue VS heritage, can choose VS, whilst those want their CHILDREN to skip "O" level, could choose VJC and do IP.
Let us give our blessings to both VS and VJC to produce more leaders for our society and country.
Reply to Independent view.
For VS to continue as it is now, will mean losing out to VJC (if their 6yr IP is approved) in terms of attracting the batch of PSLE students. As a parent myself, I will prefer my son to choose the 6yr IP over the conventional O and A level route.
As mentioned by Victoria Reunite and Old Boy in the other posts, the alternative proposal should be the way forward for VS. There is already stiff competition from another school in the east offering 6 yr IP. VS should not stand still and see a hollowing out effect (which may already be happening with VJC's present 4yr IP).
Would you like more students at VS and VJ to be given opportunites to participate in these special programmes organised by the Gifted Education Branch of MOE for IP students ?
***
http://www.gebsp.moe.gov.sg/spc/
The main focus of the Special Programmes (SPs) is talent development. The intent of the SPs is to identify and reach out to motivated and high-ability pupils in a specific domain, and offer them opportunities to deepen their interest in the field & learn from practising professionals and academics. The philosophy underlying SPs is that strong interest in a specific area provides unequalled internal motivation and acts as a powerful driving force towards self-directed and independent learning.
In all, the SPs provide enrichment opportunities in a variety of disciplines ranging from branches of science, the humanities and language arts, to non-academic areas like leadership and innovation. Many of the SPs are unique programmes conceptualised to cater to youth who exhibit interest and aptitude in specialised areas.
Currently, there are 20 SPs that the Gifted Education Branch organises in partnership with tertiary institutions and other organisations. Of the 20 programmes, 15 cater to pupils’ interest in the Sciences, 3 in the Humanities and Language Arts, one in innovation and one in leadership. There are 12 programmes organised under the umbrella of Science Mentorship Programmes.
Common to many of the SPs is a mentorship attachment component in which participants are mentored for a period of time under the guidance of experts in relevant fields. These experts are either lecturers from tertiary education or research institutes, or specialists in the private sector. After the period of mentorship, which can vary from 4 months to a year for the different SPs, participants are given the platform to showcase their products.
Science Programmes
Creative & Heuristic Applications of Science (CHAOS)
Science Mentorship Programmes (SMP)
Science Research Programme (SRP)
Science Focus (SF)
Humanities and Language Arts Programmes
Creative Arts Programme (CAP)
Humanities and Social Sciences Research Programme (HSSRP)
Moot Parliament Programme (MPP)
Innovation Programmes
Innovation Programme (IvP)
Leadership Programmes
Leadership Development Programme (LDP)
***
Forum commentators who glibly refer to GEP and IP as elitist are displaying their ignorance, not their sophistication.
Sorry, this comment
"Forum commentators who glibly refer to GEP and IP as elitist are displaying their ignorance, not their sophistication."
is meant for the post
Straits Times Forum: Beware of breeding elitism
Sep 15, 2009
EXPANDING IP PROGRAMMES
Beware of breeding elitism
Just wondering whether OVA would be putting up proposal to MOE for an independent VS so that VS could offer IB? Guess, this is one way moving forward and at the same time maintaining the rich heritage.
VS is an autonomous school.
It does not have to be an independent school to offer IP.
Understand that the current thinking in MOE is that it prefers an IP leading to the British GCE "A" levels rather than an IP leading to the French IB (International Baccalaureate) as the GCE "A" levels examinations are more content based and more rigourous.
The IP leading to IB route is probably out.
The preferred route is therefore a common VS-VJC VIP leading to the GCE "A" levels.
***
Dunman High is an autonomous school like VS.
River Valley is also an autonomous school that offers an IP.
Autonomous Schools http://app.sis.moe.gov.sg/schinfo/SIS_Results.asp
IP Schools http://app.sis.moe.gov.sg/schinfo/SIS_index.asp
***
By Victoria Reunite, September 9, 2009 @ 20:52
My opinion is that MOE will approve the proposal that best serve the needs of current and future students in the Victoria family in line with current national education policies.
***
MOE rejected an independent VS long ago. It MOE did not reject it, we would not even be at this present stage.
VJC's IP plans put on hold… for now
***
“Mr Chan Poh Meng, principal of VJC, however, remains optimistic. He said he was heartened by MOE’s reply that the school’s proposal to introduce the IP had some merits.
He said he is not disappointed by the decision, and added that he will submit another proposal in due time after further consultation with the school’s stakeholders.
These include the staff of VS (both the teachers and principals), OVA members, Victoria Executive and Advisory Committee (VAC/VEC) members, VJC’s ex-students and parents of currently-enrolled students, he explained.
Said Mr Chan: “I don’t think the door is completely shut. It will encourage me to engage the stakeholders more.
“I think I will need to explore alternatives. Perhaps a fine-tuning of the IP is required. I will work with VS more closely.”
Mr Chan explained that he needs to have a clearer understanding about the concerns of the stakeholders. And the new proposal could perhaps address some of these concerns, such as competition with VS for the secondary one cohort.
He added: “It’s too early now to talk about that because I will need to discuss with VS more and find out their concerns.
“We will then come up with a mutually acceptable solution without compromising the six-year IP objective, which is supposed to be holistic.”
He said that he had actively engaged the stakeholders in various discussions since 2007 before the proposal was submitted to MOE in August this year.”
***
When contacted yesterday, an OVA spokesman said the association has noted the latest development, and that it would continue to work closely with all stakeholders and the schools.
He said: “Our aim is to facilitate the stakeholders’ discussions with the hope of finding the best strategy with the interest of VS and VJC at heart.”
***
http://a1preview.asia1.com.sg:90/vgn-ext-templati…
Just wondering whether VJC would successful next round to admit sec one (mixed) students.
Looks like this is going to be a reality?
"The Straits Times understands that Cedar Girls' Secondary School and Victoria School are among the schools that the IP will be extended to."
Seven more schools to offer IP
by Leow Si Wan
Straits Times dated August 30, 2010 page A3
"MOE will expand the Integrated Programme to seven more secondary schools, namely, Victoria School, Cedar Girls’ Secondary School,…"
"Victoria School and Cedar Girls’ Secondary School will partner Victoria Junior College,…"
http://www.moe.gov.sg/media/press/2010/09/more-pa…
"Mr Low Eng Teong, Principal of Victoria School said:
"Students may come into the IP and decide after a while that they are more suited for the O-levels.
"And vice versa, a student in the O-levels who may not gain entry into the IP in the first place, a sort of late-bloomer, may find that they have the attributes and be allowed to cross over." "
Channel Newsasia Interview with Mr Low Eng Teong: News and Video http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/singaporel…
Expansion of the Integrated Programme
9-3-2010
As announced by Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong and Dr Ng Eng Heng, Minister for Education and Second Minister for Defence, Victoria Junior College is pleased to partner Victoria School and Cedar Girls' Secondary School from 2012 onwards in offering its Integrated Programme. We will still be recruiting students next year for the Class of 2012. Hence current Sec 1 and 2 students are not affected by the changes.
http://www.vjc.moe.edu.sg/website/expansion-of-th…
VS and Cedar: 2011 Intakes
2011 2012 2013
VS Sec 1 VS Sec 2 VJ Sec 3 (50 students)
Cedar Sec 1 Cedar Sec 2 VJ Sec 3 (50 students)
In 2013, VJ takes in 50 students each from 2011 intake of VS and Cedar
***
IP starts in 2012
2012 2013 2014 2015 2016 2017
VS Sec 1 VS Sec 2 VS Sec 3 VS Sec 4 VJ JC 1 VJ JC1
Cedar Sec 1 Cedar Sec 2 Cedar Sec 3 Cedar Sec 4 VJ JC 1 VJ JC 1
VS and Cedar: 2011 Intakes
2011
VS Sec 1 VJ Sec 3 (50 students)
Cedar Sec 1 Cedar Sec 2 VJ Sec 3 (50 students)
2012
VS Sec 2
Cedar Sec 2
In 2013, VJ takes in 50 students each from 2011 intake of VS and Cedar
2013
VJ Sec 3
2014
VJ Sec 4
2015
VJ JC1
2016
VJ JC2
***
The VJC 4-Year IP ends.
Corrected Version
VS and Cedar: 2011 Intakes
2011
VS Sec 1
Cedar Sec 1
2012
VS Sec 2
Cedar Sec 2
In 2013, VJ takes in 50 students each from 2011 intake of VS and Cedar
2013
VJ Sec 3
2014
VJ Sec 4
2015
VJ JC1
2016
VJ JC2
***
The VJC 4-Year IP ends.
Corrected version
Victoria-Cedar-VJ IP starts in 2012
2012
VS Sec 1
Cedar Sec 1
2013
VS Sec 2
Cedar Sec 2
2014
VS Sec 3
Cedar Sec 3
2015
VS Sec 4
Cedar Sec 4
2016
VJ JC1
2017
VJ JC 2
另一方面，维多利亚学校校长刘荣忠受访时说，该校这次是和维多利亚初级学院共同开设直通车课程，这是两校校友都乐意见到的发展。维多利亚校友会对维多利亚学校和四德女中的合作也表示支持。
http://www.zaobao.com.sg/sp/sp100902_008.shtml
I think we need to thank all those who have rejected VJC's 6-yr IP plan successfully last year. It may be a different story if we did not succeed then.
Next, we need to plan for an eventual merger between VS and VJC. What should the name of the merger school call? Should it be called Victoria School, or some new name which some have proposed previously, like Victoria Academy?
I think we need to thank a long list of people for the final Victoria-Cedar-Alliance IP.
1. Those who fought off the co-ed proposal in 2005
2. Those who rallied and got VJC's go alone 6 year IP rejected
3. OVA and the invisible hands for setting up the taskforce
3. Taskforce for the Victoria-Cedar IP proposal
4. VS Principal and teachers who supported the Victoria-Cedar IP proposal
5. VJC Principal and teachers who supported the Victoria-Cedar proposal
6. VAC for supporting and approving the proposal
7. VS Principal, VJC Principal, VAC Chairman and the invisible hands working behind the scene, to put up the proposal to MOE and working with MOE officers to bring it to fruition.
Definition of Academy
academy noun /əˈkæd.ə.mi/ n [C]
an organization intended to protect and develop an art, science, language, etc., or
a school which teaches a particular subject or trains people for a particular job a military/police academy
the Royal Academy of Dramatic Art
http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/britis…
Raffles Academy (of Raffles Institution)
Started in 2007, the Raffles Academy is a talent development programme designed to meet the learning needs of exceptionally gifted students in a particular subject.
Spanning from Year 3 to Year 6, students join the Raffles Academy at Year 3 and at Year 5.
The term "Academy" is used in Raffles Institution and Temasek Junior College to refer to their special programmes, not the school itself.
Victoria Academy is not an appropriate name for Victoria School and Victoria Junior College if both are re-integrated into one institution.
Raffles Academy (of Raffles Institution)
Started in 2007, the Raffles Academy is a talent development programme designed to meet the learning needs of exceptionally gifted students in a particular subject.
Spanning from Year 3 to Year 6, students join the Raffles Academy at Year 3 and at Year 5.
http://www.ri.edu.sg/main/rafflesprog/academic
Since VA is not appropriate, we use back VS for the merger school then.
Name of an eventually re-intergrated Victoria School and Victoria Junior College
***
History of Victoria School
Kampong Glam Malay School
Victoria Bridge School
then
Victoria School
(even with Pre-U classes)
Victoria Junior College founded in 1984
There are more than 25 years of history of Victoria Junior College.
Would the non-VS Victoria Junior College alumni, also Old Victorians, want to retain the Junior College name as well?
***
Victoria School is absolutely fine with me, a 6 year VS alumni.
***
Although long
Victoria School and Junior College
would embrace both the history and heritage of Victoria School and Victoria Junior College.
***
So
Victoria School
or
Victoria School and Junior College
are fine with me.
***
Name of an eventually re-integrated Victoria School and Victoria Junior College
***
History of Victoria School
Kampong Glam Malay School
Victoria Bridge School
then
Victoria School
(Still Victoria School, even with Pre-U classes)
Victoria Junior College founded in 1984
There are more than 25 years of history of Victoria Junior College.
Would the non-VS Victoria Junior College alumni, also Old Victorians, want to retain the Junior College name as well?
***
Victoria School is absolutely fine with me, a 6 year VS alumnus.
***
Although long name,
Victoria School and Junior College
would embrace both the history and heritage of Victoria School and Victoria Junior College.
***
So
Victoria School
or
Victoria School and Junior College
is fine with me.
***
Some info on HCI and RI after merger.
1. Chinese High School and Hwa Chong Junior College. Heard it is some form of compromise that it is named Hwa Chong Institution after merger. Don't have the details, but it does not matter to Chinese High School as the Chinese name (Hua Qiao Zhong Xue) is retained. HCJC has been quite independent from CHS, much more than VS/VJC relationship.
2. RI and RJC merger was announced very suddenly, a few months before the new calendar year start, without any warning at all. There are quite a no of RJC students who objected to this, but to no avail. Immediately after merger, the public and probably RI itself call the former RJC -> RI(JC). It lasted one year before RJC principal officially announced that there is no RI(JC) and just one RI. But even today, some people still call the Pre-U section of RI -> RJC or RI(JC).
Also, the name "Victoria School and Junior College" is too long and does not sound right.
In time to come, most of the boys in VJC will be from VS, eg 180 from IP (50% of 360 cohort) and 90 from O Levels = 270 total.
The merger school can probably be called Victoria School without any objection from anyone.
There may even be a chance that VS will become a full-IP school if most of the PSLE students entering VS have very high PSLE scores, thus raising the cut-off-point for VS.
Reactions to the Raffles Institution Merger and Change of Name
***
Always from RI and/or RJC (Students of the pre-merger institutions) http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=40893873205
***
I am against the Raffles Merger! http://www.facebook.com/group.php?sid=bf3c8884ffe…
***
RI~JC http://www.facebook.com/group.php?sid=bf3c8884ffe…
***
It would be useful to learn from the reactions to the HCI and RI merger and address the issues raised so as not be be caught un-AWARE.
The attd may be a salutary lesson not to tamper with the name of an institution that is "something
more
"Victoria School in Singapore
There are other schools we know
Victoria School is something more
……………"
"http://viweb.freehosting.net/Heritage.htm
There are
No of non-VS students in VJC (1984 intake) + No of non-VS students in VJC (1985 intake) +…+
No of non-VS Students in VJC (2010 intake) + …
who are non-VS students and non-VS alumni of VJC.
What do they think and how would they react to the reintegration and name ?
Also, with a female partner shool, what do they think and how would they react ?
Unfortunately, the members of VAC are unlikely to read through those facebook entries.
It is unlikely that CGS will object. CGS is too happy to be part of the whole deal.
Let's not assume that CGS would be happy to be part of the deal. Were they consulted? Or do they have much of a choice? I guess their alumni would also have qualms about a name change for their school.
Cedar was consulted and their school advisory committee and alumni agree to it. Their only condition was that the Cedarians stay in the Cedar campus for year 1 to 4. There is no name change for Cedar.
JC IP Alliances
1. RJC – RI- RGS (now known as RI-RGS)
2. HCJC – Chinese High – NYGH (now known as HCI-NYGH)
3. VJC – VS – Cedar
4. ACS (I) – MGS
New JC Alliance
5. New JC – Catholic High – CHIJ SNGS – SCGS
Standalone JC
6. NJC
7. TJC
Standalone IP Schools
8. Dunman
9. River Valley
10. SJI
Specialised IP School
11. NUS High
The JC alliances have an advantage over the standalone JCs and IP schools as their partner schools are well established secondary schools with excellent track records of co-curricular activities in sports, uniform groups, music and cultural activities at least for a number of years until the stand alone ones build up a critical mass.
Re-arranging the list, a pattern emerges.
***
IP Alliance
1. RJC – RI- RGS (now known as RI-RGS)
2. VJC – VS – Cedar
versus
Standalone IP JC
1. NJC
2. TJC
***
SAP Schools IP Alliance
1. HCJC – Chinese High – NYGH (now known as HCI-NYGH)
2. New JC – Catholic High – CHIJ SNGS – SCGS (this is exception)
versus
SAP School Standalone IP
1. Dunman High
2. River Valley
***
IB Alliance
ACS (I) – MGS
versus
IB Standalone
SJI
***
Coincidence or by design ?
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